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Bussard Collectors

MatthiasRussell

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
The bussard collectors came from Robert Bussard’s Bussard ramjet space propulsion system (this is real world). In star trek, these devises collect hydrogen, especially deuterium, for fuel replenishment where it is collected and stored in holding tanks. To work, they would need to be in a good forward line of sight to collect interstellar particles. However, the warp coils require warp plasma, not straight deuterium to work; also, the deuterium tanks are in the secondary hull. That being the case, wouldn’t the bussard collectors be better placed near the main deflector, not on the nacelles. Also, why bother to collect matter if you aren’t going to collect anti-matter also? Without equal stores of both, you’re just hauling empty weight around.
 
The simple answer? There is no canon reference as to what the glowy red bits on a starship do.
 
You need more deuterium if you want your ship to have impulse engines, so the deuterium tankage is naturally, larger than the antimatter tankage.

:shrug:

Maybe the impulse engines are gas guzzlers?
 
The simple answer? There is no canon reference as to what the glowy red bits on a starship do.

I think that TNG: Night Terrors does pretty clearly indicate that those are the Bussard collectors, not that I've watched it recently.

DATA: Thank you, Doctor. Activating Bussard collectors.
(red hydrogen streams from those forward nacelle caps out into the rift)

Transcript:
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/191.htm

Picture:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bussard_collector
 
There are two episodes where the glowy bits are called "Bussard collectors": "Night Terrors" and "Samaritan Snare".

There are two episodes where the glowy bits are used for venting out hydrogen: "Night Terrors" and "Samaritan Snare".

There is one movie where the glowy bits are used for both scooping in and venting out fluids: ST:Insurrection.

Terminology varies. In "Samaritan Snare", Data mentions "hydrogen collectors" in one scene, not necessarily related to the "Bussard collectors" mentioned in a later scene. In ST:INS, the device in singular is called "the ramscoop", and its functions involve "collecting" and then "blowing out" - and the latter is achieved by "releasing" the ramscoop, although we don't see any macroscopic device being jettisoned from the ship.

And that's pretty much it. Plenty of room for speculation, then.

The bussard collectors came from Robert Bussard’s Bussard ramjet space propulsion system (this is rgal world).

But in the Star Trek world, the association with a guy or gal named Bussard might be completely different. False etymology is the eternal bane of all language...

In star trek, these devises collect hydrogen, especially deuterium, for fuel replenishment where it is collected and stored in holding tanks.

This has not been shown, stated or otherwise suggested on screen. In all the on-screen events, the use of these devices has been an exceptional measure, a rare combat maneuver, and the collection of hydrogen mr deuterium specifically has never been shown. None of the events have dealt with refueling, while none of the episodes where refueling was mentioned have dealt with Bussard collectors or hydrogen collectors or ramscoops.

To work, they would need to be in a good forward line of sight to collect interstellar particles.

Alternately, they'd need to be off the FLOS because the FLOS is already devoid of interstellar particles. After all, the navigational deflector is tasked with keeping it empty.

However, the warp coils require warp plasma, not straight deuterium to work; also, the deuterium tanks are in the secondary hull.

Again noncanon hearsay, if we're allowed to nitpick...

Also, why bother to collect matter if you aren’t going to collect anti-matter also? Without equal stores of both, you’re just hauling empty weight around.

Rockets work on empty weight (aka propellant); perhaps starships have rockets that need propellant (that only has to have mass), in addition to having things that need fuel (that also has to feature extractable energy, such as chemical or nuclear bonds)?

We do know that the glowy bits next to the nacelles are present in some 99.9% of Starfleet designs - although we also know warp can be achieved by quite different designs, including ones that feature nacelles but not glowy scoops. Since Starfleet are the good guys, perhaps the glowy scoops are a particularly environmentally friendly thing (that is, indeed a way to get extra fuel without relying on the Trek equivalent of nasty and dirty oil drilling platforms)? Warrior races wouldn't often bother with them, then. Or perhaps they alter the ship's emission signature ("scoop out noise factors") so that it's easier to do scientific measurements? Another thing only Starfleet would usually bother with.

Personally, I think the scoops are there simply to serve as snow plows: they remove obstacles, and warp engines work best when obstacles are removed. More barbaric cultures simply ram through galactic soot, but the Feds neatly sweep and suck it away, using both deflectors and ramscoops. Whether they get anything extra out of it, such as fuel replenishment, is debatable.

Timo Saloniemi
 
^ Very excellent reasoning. Though I think if the Bussard Collectors ate going to act as snow plows, why not mount them near the defector, suck in the particulate instead of always deflecting it, then the fuel is much more easily routed to the tanks which operations displays show are in the secondary hull. If the collectors aren't used in creating warp fields, why mount them on the nacelles?
 
The deflector dish deflects other things. The ramscoop only wants one thing. You don't want everything else bashing into the ship.
 
I'm sure their jobs can be performed simultaneously, they already do in fact. My point of wanting them on the secondary hull, if at all, is to be closer to the tanks. If the scoops work from the nacelles, they could work from the secondary hull.
 
As a kid, I thought they were merely caps on the front of the engines and served no other purpose than that.
 
Whay does anyone think that matter is collected during warp speed? Easier and safer to do it at sublight light speeds.
 
If the scoops work from the nacelles, they could work from the secondary hull.

Might be that the deflector dish is fine for most of the ship, and not even necessary for all types of ship, but the warp coils always need extra clean space ahead of them. They're supposedly compressing space ahead of them, after all, which might mean trouble in the form of superdense interstellar dust without the dedicated plows.

Or the reverse might be true: the manipulation of space performed by the warp coils means that the densest interstellar dust is found right in front of the coil sets, so that's the only sensible place for having a collector device.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I don't think space directly in front of or behind the nacelles matter to the operation if the warp coils considering the collectors don't interact with them and the coils create a bubble around the entire ship, not just the nacelles.
 
For getting Anti-Matter, I thought that while the Bussards take in Hydrogen for fuel they take a portion of the Hrdrogen collected and convert it into anti-matter using specilised generators?
 
The TNG Tech Manual says the Ent-D has a quantum charge reversal doohickey, but its bulky and power-hungry, so its not used on every ship.
 
Agreed, I consider the tech manuals as important as canon. The writers used them and they were created by those who worked on the show. To me reference books and ship commentary by their designers are just as important as on screen material and often have less contradictions.
 
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