Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by lvsxy808, Oct 28, 2008.
There used to be this drug called cocaine in the 80s.
EVERYTHING seemed like a good idea.
This is the part that interested me, since my partner SWEARS that Joss Whedon is gay. He has the look and SO knows how to write for young girls.
Yeah when I was first watching the DVD bonus features for Firefly/Buffy and really didn't know much about him I thought he was gay.
Andrew was a weak character no matter his preferences. To me, he was JW's version of Gollum, albeit one who survived when he maybe should not have. Xander's last comment about Anya can be seen as being far more snide towards Andrew than her. His devotion to the heartless Warren was sad, whether in friendship or love, and he killed the only person who could stand to be around him (ala Smeagle's cousin). If TL had been directed to speak in a less stereotypical way (my brother had to point him out in Transformers) Andrew might have worked better. Everything in BTVS S7 was more than slightly overdone, in MO.
Andrew was the next generation of Xander, despite whatever his sexuality was. Xander had grown up and his humor was becoming more jaded due to his experances. Andrew replaced that, by bringing back whimsy to the show in a season that most needed it. Xander couldn't even cry for Anya upon her death, while Andrew did.
I freely admit, I enjoyed every last squirm I felt when I recognized all of Andrew's refs. I think Vegeta would have killed him for the comparison, though.
Try this : http://www.southroad.com/brightfame/stories/thankyougirl.html
Its very short.
In other words, Andrew could be a member here.
Probably the reason why he survived. Andrew wondered, in the finale, why he wasn't the one to have died: that would have provided the appropriate narrative closure, redemptive death, to his story so far. But Andrew's S7 arc was about not treating life like a story, and surviving the final battle when more 'deserving' characters didn't was just another way of disrupting the expected narrative, for the character and the audience.
What, me over-analyse?
Creditorly yours, the Rent Woman
You do realize that was not his first Angel episode, right?
Fair point. He was better used in his other episode (much better then on Buffy arguably.)
Yes and on television they exist more. The weak cowardly coded gay outnumbers the strong gay hero, what, a hundred to one? A thousand to one?
He was a one note joke in a show that invited the audience to laugh at a guy who wasn't a 'real man' and to stop anyone being too offended he was given his crush on Warren and his implied gayness.
The stereotypical attributes I was refering to was his feyness, his weakness, his general pathetic nature (highlighted by his nerdiness), his inabilty to fight and his cowardy moments. Now given that Buffys mantra was to subvert sterotypes (A show about the cheerleader/girls saving the guys) this was near unforgiveable and very lazy writing.
And a background character who was killed off far too early.
Who as horrible as she may be was never treated as a joke. She was also Willows second girlfriend. When did we see any of Buffy or Angels gay man/men with boyfriends?
Of course they can, and if it was the directors idea then sorry to the writers, but I believe Andrew actually says something along the lines of 'sometimes its time to try something new/different' (not the exact quote) and then walks off with the girls. I saw this as a suggestion that his implied gayness was only a phase and now he had grown up and matured (which was after all the whole theme of the episode) he had discovered girls. (And yes, I did assume them to be slayers, I also assumed the episode was impling he was sleeping with them.)
^^^Johnathan had all these characteristics as well and wasn't gay.
What gay character was on Angel?
Lorne was a demon and owner of a night club but it was never proven what his sexuality was one way or another. His flamboyance fit the type of job he was in much like many big city club owners who aren't gay.
It was also first believed Wesley (when he was on Buffy) acted gay, same for Giles due to their manerisims but they weren't, were they?
Joss did a good job showing ones mannerisms doesn't define ones sexuality. It is we the viewing audience that holds onto such stereotypes.
Yeah, but...well..you know..um..the fact is...err...
There wasn't one which was kinda my point.
Another good point and I would like to add Lorne was rather awesome as well. He shot Linsey!
No, they were English on an American show.
I still feel it was using those stereotypes that they implied Andrews sexuality which I felt was wrong.
I'm only just remembering this now but in one of the issues of Season 8 hes in the middle of a game of strip poker with a lot of half naked really hot Slayers and isn't interested, you have to see the actual frame but the implication is clear. Thats set several months after his appearances in Angel.
Sorry, you already admitted that Johnathan & Lorne made that point moot.
I need to buy the TPB when it's collected....
The first 2 TPBs are already out, the third is out within the next month or so.
That scene is in about issue 2 or 3. It was collected ages ago in the first TPB "Long Way Home" (1-5)
Vol.2 "No Future For You" (6-10) is also out, and Vol.3 "Wolves at the Gate" (11-15) should be out November 19
I resemble that remark.
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