You might want to be careful, you're getting pretty close to some spoilery stuff here.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
This is the first time @tomalak301 has watched the shows and he doesn't want spoilers.
Forgiving
There was so much that happened in that episode which was supposed to be fallout from the prior. Angel is doing anything he can (And taking no shits) to get his son back and we find out the prophecy was rewritten by Sarjhan to make it so Angel would be the one who killed his son. I have to say I wasn't sure about Sarjahn at the beginning, but I'm liking him as a big bad. He's basically using everyone for his scheme and it was Justine who defeats him by putting him back in the urn. That ending scene in the hospital was shocking, but I loved it. I hate how a lot of shows will go out of their way to show forgiveness, when in the real world it's incredibly hard. To have Angel almost suffogate Wesley was really shocking but he is one pissed off father. It will be incredibly hard to ever trust him again. Also, I still think Wesley needed to tell Angel about the prophecy and all this would have probably happened differently. They build up all this trust and it's fear that knocks it all down.
@Greg Cox
Yeah, the 20th anniversary. @Turtletrekker has been linking a number of stories and such. I can't read them yet of course, but I do miss some of the behind the scenes info I learned from watching Buffy. For example, we're in a stretch where Carpenter has not been in the series at all, and she wasn't in Buffy at this time either (2001-2002). I wonder why they wrote her out of the series for a few weeks. This wasn't when Veronica Mars started, was it?
There was so much that happened in that episode which was supposed to be fallout from the prior. Angel is doing anything he can (And taking no shits) to get his son back and we find out the prophecy was rewritten by Sarjhan to make it so Angel would be the one who killed his son. I have to say I wasn't sure about Sarjahn at the beginning, but I'm liking him as a big bad. He's basically using everyone for his scheme and it was Justine who defeats him by putting him back in the urn. That ending scene in the hospital was shocking, but I loved it. I hate how a lot of shows will go out of their way to show forgiveness, when in the real world it's incredibly hard. To have Angel almost suffogate Wesley was really shocking but he is one pissed off father. It will be incredibly hard to ever trust him again. Also, I still think Wesley needed to tell Angel about the prophecy and all this would have probably happened differently. They build up all this trust and it's fear that knocks it all down.
@Greg Cox
Yeah, the 20th anniversary. @Turtletrekker has been linking a number of stories and such. I can't read them yet of course, but I do miss some of the behind the scenes info I learned from watching Buffy. For example, we're in a stretch where Carpenter has not been in the series at all, and she wasn't in Buffy at this time either (2001-2002). I wonder why they wrote her out of the series for a few weeks. This wasn't when Veronica Mars started, was it?
Greg, you posting in this thread reminded me of something. Didn't you sneak a Buffy Easter egg into one of your Star Trek novels about the Eugenics Wars? Something about Maggie Walsh in season 4?
Charisma asked for time off to shoot a movie called THE GROOMSMAN
Double or Nothing
If I'm being honest, Gunn isn't my favorite character on this series. I think the writers wanted to do something for him, but I'm not sure if any of his episodes really worked. Take this one for example. We get more backstory on him, and he is willing to sacrifice himself for a truck. Didn't this guy have a support structure around him, like his sister or that group? Maybe this was before then but I find it hard to believe that he would be that dire to give up is soul for a truck. I kinda find Gunn's episodes boring, and I'm kinda finding the relationship between him and Fred boring. However, Fred is adorable and is actually trying to make it work, which I give her credit for.
This episode was really filler, and this time I mean the bad filler. With everything that has been happening this one was very random and just kinda there. Also, the double or nothing scene was kinda lame. If everyone was out to get the casino boss, you'd thing having a mob rule in that instance would have been pretty easy.
I think the only good thing about that plot was Jason Carter was in this episode. I haven't seen him in anything else other than Babylon 5 (As Marcus) so seeing his name pop up on the credits was a surprise.
The Price
Ok, this was filler done well. Angel Investigations has a slug infestation and Fred is infected. Gunn is desperate for help, goes to Wesley and we learn Alcohol really does drink the pain away. All that is well and good, but then we got the ending with this guy coming out saying "Hi Dad". Looks like someone grew up in the hell dimension.
If I'm being honest, Gunn isn't my favorite character on this series. I think the writers wanted to do something for him, but I'm not sure if any of his episodes really worked. Take this one for example. We get more backstory on him, and he is willing to sacrifice himself for a truck. Didn't this guy have a support structure around him, like his sister or that group? Maybe this was before then but I find it hard to believe that he would be that dire to give up is soul for a truck. I kinda find Gunn's episodes boring, and I'm kinda finding the relationship between him and Fred boring. However, Fred is adorable and is actually trying to make it work, which I give her credit for.
This episode was really filler, and this time I mean the bad filler. With everything that has been happening this one was very random and just kinda there. Also, the double or nothing scene was kinda lame. If everyone was out to get the casino boss, you'd thing having a mob rule in that instance would have been pretty easy.
I think the only good thing about that plot was Jason Carter was in this episode. I haven't seen him in anything else other than Babylon 5 (As Marcus) so seeing his name pop up on the credits was a surprise.
The Price
Ok, this was filler done well. Angel Investigations has a slug infestation and Fred is infected. Gunn is desperate for help, goes to Wesley and we learn Alcohol really does drink the pain away. All that is well and good, but then we got the ending with this guy coming out saying "Hi Dad". Looks like someone grew up in the hell dimension.
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A New World
First impression of teenage Connor? Eh, It will take a while to get used to him. He's the kind of actor who I could easily see getting annoyed with pretty quickly, and this might be a bad shake-up of the status quo. When you have teenage boys running around, the actor better be pretty good or else they run the risk of being annoying pretty quickly. I'm going to give him a chance though, since Connor just got back from the hell dimension. I did enjoy Angel trying to talk to him though, asking the fatherly questions and such. Boreanz played the father figure pretty well here.
With two episodes left, I'm surprised they have left Wesley on the sidelines for this long. I still want to hear his side of the story and why he betrayed the group. The scene with him and Lilah and bringing up Judas in the 9th circle of hell might have actually been my favorite scene in the episode.
First impression of teenage Connor? Eh, It will take a while to get used to him. He's the kind of actor who I could easily see getting annoyed with pretty quickly, and this might be a bad shake-up of the status quo. When you have teenage boys running around, the actor better be pretty good or else they run the risk of being annoying pretty quickly. I'm going to give him a chance though, since Connor just got back from the hell dimension. I did enjoy Angel trying to talk to him though, asking the fatherly questions and such. Boreanz played the father figure pretty well here.
With two episodes left, I'm surprised they have left Wesley on the sidelines for this long. I still want to hear his side of the story and why he betrayed the group. The scene with him and Lilah and bringing up Judas in the 9th circle of hell might have actually been my favorite scene in the episode.
The actor goes on to star in Mad Men. By that time he is much better, but Connor is one of the characters who starts off annoying and then grows on you over time. The back half of the third season and going into the fourth is when the show really starts firing on all cylinders and benefits from the character development up until that point. I think that you'll change your opinion of Gunn as well.
The second season happened a while ago. Do you mean the third?
Fixed. I started to write second half of the third season and then left "second" in when deleting.
Benediction
That was a heck of an arc for Holtz, and he's still making Angel suffer even in death. That was a nice set up for the finale. I'm also curious about Cordelia's shiny new powers. I wonder if she's like a corporeal version of The Powers. Maybe she's a new Oracle?
I'm still saddened that Wesley continues to be on the sidelines. It's near the finale almost and Lilah is manipulating him it feels like. I wish they would reconnect.
So do I call Connor, Connor or Stephen. Seems like so far they are going towards the Stephen name.
That was a heck of an arc for Holtz, and he's still making Angel suffer even in death. That was a nice set up for the finale. I'm also curious about Cordelia's shiny new powers. I wonder if she's like a corporeal version of The Powers. Maybe she's a new Oracle?
I'm still saddened that Wesley continues to be on the sidelines. It's near the finale almost and Lilah is manipulating him it feels like. I wish they would reconnect.
So do I call Connor, Connor or Stephen. Seems like so far they are going towards the Stephen name.
Tomorrow
That was a hell of a season finale. Angel falls, while Cordelia rises. I was reminded a little of Ben Sisko joining the prophets in DS9's final episode when Skip came down and told Cordy she would be transcending to a higher plane. I hate to sound all religious, but her ascension actually made me think of the ascension of Mary. She was glowing, rose up, and she looked like what I would picture the Virgin Mary would look like on her ascension.
Connor really is a messed up kid. I guess I'm not surprised. He sees Angel has a demon, his fake father who he believes killed his real father. That was a hell of a plan he and Justine cooked up. Of course knowing what I know from Buffy, Angel does come back but I don't think it lessens the impact of this finale. I'm looking forward to what they have cooked up for season 4.
As for the overall season, I was thinking today watching these episodes which season I prefer, Season 2 or 3. Season 2 had Darla, Drusilla, and a whole lot of backstory for Angel. It also had a stretch of episodes where it felt like the writers were stalling and I was losing interest. I don't think I was losing interest at all during season 3 and the reason for that was this was an incredibly tightly written season. These characters really did grow together as a family and it was fun watching all of them develop. I still don't have much to say about Gunn though, as I think his story has been more about being in a relationship with Fred rather than actually doing anything that is worth mentioning. In fact, unless I really had to, I really didn't talk about Gunn that much. I did love Fred though. Here was a character who was lost for 5 years, came back, suffered PTSD, and broke out of it when she found her purpose. After that, she was just fun to be around. She's also adorable and quite perky.
I'm worried about the direction Wesley is going in. I was really hoping he would reconnect with Team Angel, but that doesn't seem like it's happening, and now he's doing a one night stand with Lilah. I don't want to see him be the bad guy in season 4. Speaking of Lilah, while I liked Lindsey in season 2, I thought Season 3 was a good one for Wolfram & Hart. I love Gavin and Linewood and Lilah continues to shine in her own deliciously evil way.
Overall, I think I liked this season more than the first two. Really enjoyed how Darla ended, watching Cordelia become a higher power (Which was slow, but paced well if that makes any sense) and I don't know what to expect from Connor or Justine next season. I hope Justine is back. She was a pretty good character too.
Top 5:
Lullaby
Sleep Tight
Tomorrow
Birthday
Fredless
Since I finished Buffy, I've really looked forward to season 4 of Angel. Faith is back to set up her final 5 on Buffy, and I'm really hoping either season 4 or the beginning of season 5 will improve Chosen for me. Also, I'm going out of town a week from Friday and my Birthday is next week, which is why I've been going at a quick pace. I hope to finish season 4 before I go so when I get back, it will be the final season of the Buffy-Verse before I head to Vegas for the Trek Convention.
That was a hell of a season finale. Angel falls, while Cordelia rises. I was reminded a little of Ben Sisko joining the prophets in DS9's final episode when Skip came down and told Cordy she would be transcending to a higher plane. I hate to sound all religious, but her ascension actually made me think of the ascension of Mary. She was glowing, rose up, and she looked like what I would picture the Virgin Mary would look like on her ascension.
Connor really is a messed up kid. I guess I'm not surprised. He sees Angel has a demon, his fake father who he believes killed his real father. That was a hell of a plan he and Justine cooked up. Of course knowing what I know from Buffy, Angel does come back but I don't think it lessens the impact of this finale. I'm looking forward to what they have cooked up for season 4.
As for the overall season, I was thinking today watching these episodes which season I prefer, Season 2 or 3. Season 2 had Darla, Drusilla, and a whole lot of backstory for Angel. It also had a stretch of episodes where it felt like the writers were stalling and I was losing interest. I don't think I was losing interest at all during season 3 and the reason for that was this was an incredibly tightly written season. These characters really did grow together as a family and it was fun watching all of them develop. I still don't have much to say about Gunn though, as I think his story has been more about being in a relationship with Fred rather than actually doing anything that is worth mentioning. In fact, unless I really had to, I really didn't talk about Gunn that much. I did love Fred though. Here was a character who was lost for 5 years, came back, suffered PTSD, and broke out of it when she found her purpose. After that, she was just fun to be around. She's also adorable and quite perky.
I'm worried about the direction Wesley is going in. I was really hoping he would reconnect with Team Angel, but that doesn't seem like it's happening, and now he's doing a one night stand with Lilah. I don't want to see him be the bad guy in season 4. Speaking of Lilah, while I liked Lindsey in season 2, I thought Season 3 was a good one for Wolfram & Hart. I love Gavin and Linewood and Lilah continues to shine in her own deliciously evil way.
Overall, I think I liked this season more than the first two. Really enjoyed how Darla ended, watching Cordelia become a higher power (Which was slow, but paced well if that makes any sense) and I don't know what to expect from Connor or Justine next season. I hope Justine is back. She was a pretty good character too.
Top 5:
Lullaby
Sleep Tight
Tomorrow
Birthday
Fredless
Since I finished Buffy, I've really looked forward to season 4 of Angel. Faith is back to set up her final 5 on Buffy, and I'm really hoping either season 4 or the beginning of season 5 will improve Chosen for me. Also, I'm going out of town a week from Friday and my Birthday is next week, which is why I've been going at a quick pace. I hope to finish season 4 before I go so when I get back, it will be the final season of the Buffy-Verse before I head to Vegas for the Trek Convention.
Season 4 is the most arc based season of either show, with almost all of the episodes after the first half-dozen being a continuous story. There are a few clunkers but overall it really did something that other shows had not attempted up to that point.
Season 4 has my favorite arc (the Faith/Willow crossover with Buffy S7), my favorite Wesley moment and my biggest "eww" moment of the show.
I'm excited to see Faith back. I thought she would have been in more episodes, but it was only a few. Also, I get to find out why Willow had to go to LA, finally.
At least in shows like Angel there is usually a plot reason for that.
In soap operas it just happens.
How about we call it Topaphobia: The fear that a character may suddenly age man years from episode to the next with a reason or explanation.
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