Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

[tomalak301]

Lullaby

What an arc Darla had in this series. That was fun to watch, but a sad way to end it. However, she ended it by getting the redemption, with the help of her unborn son giving her a soul, and I loved the pain and strife she was going through in this episode. She had brought so much pain and destruction and she saved her son by sacrificing herself. Man if there is one thing this show took advantage of as a spin off series to Buffy, it was really developing these characters like Darla, Wesley, Cordelia, and even Fred. They are not the same as when we met them, and I loved watching Darla's arc all the way through. As for the rest of this episode, this was the best of the Baby arc so far. I still am a little confused on how Darla got pregnant in the first place so unless that reveal is coming, maybe someone can clear it up. It does look like this is truly Angel's baby, and I know they did sleep together. Was the reason Angel had a soul the reason the Birth was able to happen? Also, they still have this Nyazian prophecy out there which I don't think they're done with yet.

And so much for Caritas. He just remodeled too. I liked that Bar.

Dad

Connor is cute, and Angel being a father is adorable. I liked Angel trying to be a dad and the end when they gave him the name. The stuff in the middle was kinda dull with all these cults going after the Baby. I think they need to slim down the fat a little. There's too much going on at the moment I feel. I did like the scene between Holtz and Justine though, and I actually just read that Flo from the Progressive Commercials was in this episode as the records lady from Wolfram & Hart. That's pretty cool.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Earlier when I said "you ain't seen nothing yet" in regards to Darla, I was referring to her self-sacrifice. One of the most powerful scenes in the entire Buffy-verse. It says something about the character of Angel that he can have such an epic love story with both Buffy and with Darla and they both feel so right.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Generally when you sacrifice your life, literally or figuratively, for your kid, you kinda hope that that kid of yours is not going to grow up to be an assshole.

I took a Sabrina break, so the wife and I are still in seaosn 2.

I'm looking at Lyndsay's pickup truck in Epiphany.

That's the truck he came to LA in to become a lawyer, or came to LA in to sell his soul and then he got made into a Lawyer by demons.

Point is, that that dates Lyndsay to the 1940s or 1950s.

Is he a young immortal?

That might explain his brutish behaviour in trying to "own" Darla.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Generally when you sacrifice your life, literally or figuratively, for your kid, you kinda hope that that kid of yours is not going to grow up to be an assshole.

I took a Sabrina break, so the wife and I are still in seaosn 2.

I'm looking at Lyndsay's pickup truck in Epiphany.

That's the truck he came to LA in to become a lawyer, or came to LA in to sell his soul and then he got made into a Lawyer by demons.

Point is, that that dates Lyndsay to the 1940s or 1950s.

Is he a young immortal?

That might explain his brutish behaviour in trying to "own" Darla.

He's a farmboy who inherited a ridiculously old truck. Those old Fords would last forever if you took care of them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You could leave one floating in the Delta Quadrant for 400 years and the engine would still turn over?

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[Mr. Adventure]

^ you can't kill the Elimiinator that easily...

 

[JD]

Man if there is one thing this show took advantage of as a spin off series to Buffy, it was really developing these characters like Darla, Wesley, Cordelia, and even Fred. They are not the same as when we met them, and I loved watching Darla's arc all the way through.

Do you know anything about the last season?

He's a farmboy who inherited a ridiculously old truck. Those old Fords would last forever if you took care of them.

I'm not sure how much you see them out East, but I still see them on the road occasionally out here.

 

[tomalak301]

Do you know anything about the last season?

The only thing I know about the Last season is for some reason Spike is supposed to appear. Considering I saw Chosen 2 weeks ago, the thing I'm really curious about season 4 and 5 is if Angel did anything to set up the whole Amulet storyline and if they actually clarified what that thing actually did because watching the Buffy finale, it really did feel like a Deus ex Machina.

 

[JD]

OK, if you did I was going to make a joke, but since you don't, I won't.

 

[tomalak301]

Birthday

With all the talk these days about needed more strong woman in roles, I think Cordelia Chase just became one of my favorite woman roles I've ever seen. To put a comparison on, I think this episode made Cordy the Aeryn Sun of the Buffy Universe. Here is a character who started out as a spoiled rich kid who had everything. She starts realizing, in Buffy, that she could be so much more and over time she develops to the point where she is literally leaving her "Spoiled" persona behind. Aeryn starts out as the woman soldier who had everything, until she became universally contaminated and lost it all only to be told she could be so much more. Over time, Aeryn and Cordy do become so much more, to the point where they have completely shed their past lives because it just wasn't a damn anymore. Aeryn's lasted the entire series. Cordy got her Aeryn moment in this episode where she is given a chance to live the life what she always wanted to be and realized it wasn't what she was anymore. In losing the rich and famous, she gained a whole lot more purpose and even told skip to demonize her because that was the life she wanted.

I can see why I was told to hold off criticizing Cordy early on, even though it was hard. She has changed so much and this episode was an exclamation of that. We also got more on the visions, and I wanted to see if I got that whole thing correct so I'm going to have maybe a stupid Star Wars comparison. Are the Powers that Be like Buffy's version of The Force and the demons who inherit the visions like the Jedi? Are the visions basically the force calling out in the universe? If I'm right, in this fantastical genre of demons and darkness, that's a pretty good foundation for this entire universe. You got the slayer defending the normal people from the darkness, and you got good demons defending from the darkness in their own way.

This season has been kinda up and down, and the baby arc seemed a little muddied in places (Though Lullaby was an amazing episode mainly because of Darla), but this episode really was one of the seasons best.

 

[JD]

The Powers That Be Are actually specific beings, you will learn a bit more about them pretty soon.

 

[tomalak301]

The Powers That Be Are actually specific beings, you will learn a bit more about them pretty soon.

Ok. I thought they were like gods or something. You can’t see them but they are there.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Birthday

With all the talk these days about needed more strong woman in roles, I think Cordelia Chase just became one of my favorite woman roles I've ever seen. To put a comparison on, I think this episode made Cordy the Aeryn Sun of the Buffy Universe. Here is a character who started out as a spoiled rich kid who had everything. She starts realizing, in Buffy, that she could be so much more and over time she develops to the point where she is literally leaving her "Spoiled" persona behind. Aeryn starts out as the woman soldier who had everything, until she became universally contaminated and lost it all only to be told she could be so much more. Over time, Aeryn and Cordy do become so much more, to the point where they have completely shed their past lives because it just wasn't a damn anymore. Aeryn's lasted the entire series. Cordy got her Aeryn moment in this episode where she is given a chance to live the life what she always wanted to be and realized it wasn't what she was anymore. In losing the rich and famous, she gained a whole lot more purpose and even told skip to demonize her because that was the life she wanted.

I can see why I was told to hold off criticizing Cordy early on, even though it was hard. She has changed so much and this episode was an exclamation of that. We also got more on the visions, and I wanted to see if I got that whole thing correct so I'm going to have maybe a stupid Star Wars comparison. Are the Powers that Be like Buffy's version of The Force and the demons who inherit the visions like the Jedi? Are the visions basically the force calling out in the universe? If I'm right, in this fantastical genre of demons and darkness, that's a pretty good foundation for this entire universe. You got the slayer defending the normal people from the darkness, and you got good demons defending from the darkness in their own way.

The timing of your re-watch and the anniversary is very cool. This is what Joss Whedon said for EW at the above link (no spoilers)...

In Cordelia, (Whedon) found the opportunity to tell an origin story, something he had to skip with Gellar as Buffy. “You get to watch her go from somebody who is completely shallow and self-involved to somebody who is a hero,” he says.

Here is something for you to enjoy after season five. The rest of us can watch now.

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[Mr. Adventure]

I had to do a search, I had said all the way back on May 17th...

I think Cordelia is underrated as well for her character growth in Angel.

 

[tomalak301]

Provider

The moral of this episode is don't fall for scams. It was pretty lightweight, with 3 different storylines merging to the one at the end. I am glad they are talking about how funds are going to work, especially with the Baby now. I'm glad they took the 50K. They worked hard for that and Fred almost got her head cut off. The scenes between Holtz and Justine were decent, kind of building up that story.

 

[tomalak301]

Waiting in the Wings

There might be some disagreement with this one, but I was kinda bored by it. Maybe because I'm not a fan of the Ballet or relationship drama but my interest kept waning. I get what they were going for, in regards of passion and pain and tragedy, but this was one of the more duller ones so far. I did like the idea of the Ballet having the same dance every year for a 100 years. That was a neat twist and, hey, River (Summer Glau) was in this episode as the Ballerena. I was surprised Groo from Pylea showed up again. I didn't expect to see him again after Team angel got back.

 

[SAndrews10]

Waiting In The Wings is a top 10 for me

 

[HaventGotALife]

The timing of your re-watch and the anniversary is very cool. This is what Joss Whedon said for EW at the above link (no spoilers)...



Here is something for you to enjoy after season five. The rest of us can watch now.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Very cool to see the cast reunited. I felt this show had great moments, but conceptually, wasn't as strong as Buffy. It felt like a spin-off with references to Buffy, often, an re-treading on some of their themes and characterizations.

Cordelia grew tremendously, Fred was a delight, Quinn's character made an impact on just nine episodes. But, I always felt like they didn't let things stew long enough. They seemed to be forcing growth and over planning a season, instead of seeing how these elements meshed together. So, there were missed opportunities, seeing what resonates and works, as opposed to forcing the story out without the actors, or development, to do so. It just didn't feel organic, when they tried something new.

The second is my favorite. I think Darla and Fred are great additions to the show, and so is the backstory to their hotel. The fourth had the best concept, and the fifth just felt forced. Angel is a sellout. He's a puppet. He made a deal with the devil.

I much preferred the intimate stories to the epic, on this show, and it would provide a nice counter-weight to Buffy's "end the world every May" stories.

 

[tomalak301]

Couplet

This seemed like the end of the Angel/Cordelia relationship. Kinda sad but Angel is cursed with the whole happiness thing. Not sure if The Groosalog is right for her either but if she’s happy, that’s all that matters. Fred and Gunn is an interesting relationship. That seemed to just happen. I’m going through these at a nice pace that maybe I missed the signs but I was hoping maybe Fred and Wesley would get together, especially after the events of Billy.

This episode was another “just there” episodes. It wasn’t good or bad but I was more intrigued by the whole prophecy and Father Kills the Son thing. That’s ominous.

Loyalty

And we’re back to the main arc about the baby and the ominous prophecy, Lilah is back in the fold working with Sarajahn, and Holtz has already recruited quite a number of people for the fight against Angel near the finale. Also there was more relationship drama with Gunn and Fred which wasn’t bad.

This episode was a lot more exciting than the prior. Wesley is talking to big hamburgers (that was kinda corny but I liked it anyway), and the prophecy is coming true with the earthquake, fire, and Blood at the end. Wesley going to Holtz was a surprise. I have to think more will come of that in the upcoming episodes.

I did miss Cordelia though. I guess this was a time Carpenter was doing something else because she wasn’t on Buffy.

Great episode.

 

[tomalak301]

Sleep Tight

What is it with shows and characters going behind people's backs? This entire thing with Connor could have been avoided if Wesley actually was open about what the prophecy said and talked to the team. He feels he was doing the right thing, but why trust Justine. She's working for the man who wants Angel killed and is obsessed with vengeance. I don't know if Wes knew Justine was Holtz's right hand person or not, but someone with a personal vendetta would rub that off on the people he's recruiting, the same people who also have personal vendettas. Of course because the plot is a lot more interesting if he didn't tell, we have what happened at the end, but time and again it feels like things could be avoided by the simplest of solutions.

With that said, wow what an episode this was. Everyone is after the Miracle child, and it's Holtz who takes him and goes through that portal to a hell dimension. I loved that stand off at the end with all the players there (The Tri-clon, Wolfram & Hart, Holtz, and Sarshjan). Really excited where they are taking this. After some episodes dealing with relationship drama, we're right back to top quality for season 3.