Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

[Jayson1]

Seeing Willow's love of her life telling her to commit suicide might have been a really damaging thing, especially if there was backlash on how she was killed off in the first place.

I know but if it's not really Tara if it is not the same person you loved telling you that. It's just a demon in disguise. It would be very upsetting and disturbing but I think that was what they were going for in the episode. They were trying to raise the stakes. Actually I felt the bad guy in the final was kind of a letdown because of a certain limit to it's powers. It isn't until something in the future episodes comes along and makes the bad guy a little better but still not on the level of Spike and Druscilla or The Mayor or Glory from past seasons.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I think she meant that she didn't want the last time that fans saw Tara to be "her" trying to get Willow to kill herself. Particularly LGBTQ fans for whom Willow and Tara were extremely important. Speaking as I bi man, I can only imagine how important it was for many lesbians to see Willow and Tara on mainstream television. Let alone any women who came out to their loved ones as a result.

I can see that. I wonder if they did do it that would have opened the door into seeing the real Tara again in a future episode. I could for example seeing a flashback at some point of the real Tara or maybe a Tara hallucination that is different than the bad guy trying to trick her.

Jason

 

[OCD Geek]

Going back to Drew Goddard's Selfless for a moment, Wikipedia reminded me of something from Goddard's audio commentary that I completely forgot about.

Goddard also says that he chose the name Aud for Anya's original human name because while researching Viking names he found a Viking king named Olaf who had a wife named Aud, known for her sense of humor and her ability to manage money. The description of Aud fit Anya so well that he had to use the name.

Here's the real Aud's Wikipedia page.

 

[Mr Soak]

Conversations with Dead People - the only episode of Buffy without Xander.

 

[tomalak301]

Conversations with Dead People - the only episode of Buffy without Xander.

I think it was better for it. The people that needed the focus got the focus. Xander got his in the Season 6 finale.

 

[SAndrews10]

Count me as one who misses the musings on every episode.

 

[tomalak301]

Ok, I'll go back to doing that. The only one I missed was Help, but I just talked about in a couple posts.

 

[gblews]

He wanted to know if he could write another song. Whedon scoffed at that, since he was busy as fuck as it was. The very next day Whedon handed Goddard some papers and said, "Here's your song."

I always thought Anya's song was a leftover from OMWF, perhaps a song they couldn't fit in because of time or subject.

But it reminds me of another question that you may have some insight on; the reports that Joss Whedon took guitar lessons in order to write the songs for OMWF. That just seems to be impossible to me to believe. Playing and composing are two entirely different disciplines.

Even if Joss was a quick learner and picked up all the basic chords to the point where he could play songs, using those chords to compose melodies would seem to be too much for a beginning guitarist. Maybe he had the melodies kicking around in his head, but if that was true, then all he would needed to have done was sing those melodies to a musician and he/she could have figured out the chords. No need for Joss to learn to play.

Do you know if this is report is true? If it turns out it is then I would call Whedon super-human.

 

[OCD Geek]

I always thought Anya's song was a leftover from OMWF, perhaps a song they couldn't fit in because of time or subject.

But it reminds me of another question that you may have some insight on; the reports that Joss Whedon took guitar lessons in order to write the songs for OMWF. That just seems to be impossible to me to believe. Playing and composing are two entirely different disciplines.

Even if Joss was a quick learner and picked up all the basic chords to the point where he could play songs, using those chords to compose melodies would seem to be too much for a beginning guitarist. Maybe he had the melodies kicking around in his head, but if that was true, then all he would needed to have done was sing those melodies to a musician and he/she could have figured out the chords. No need for Joss to learn to play.

Do you know if this is report is true? If it turns out it is then I would call Whedon super-human.

Not only was the song "Mrs." pulled out of Whedon's butt in less than a day according to Goddard's audio commentary, but the scene itself was originally going to be a flashback to Hush. When Goddard realized he couldn't make it work he decided to do a flashback to the musical instead.

As for your question, I'm not sure. I do know the musical originated from some cast members and writers from both shows hanging out at Whedon's house once a week to sing and do Shakespeare readings. And that Whedon's then wife Kai Cole played the piano on all the demos.

And that Whedon was originally going to take a vacation for a few months after stepping down from Buffy following Season 5 since he never really took any time off during his era of the show. Instead he turned up at the Mutant Enemy offices and told Marti Noxon, "I used my vacation to write a musical episode that fits into your planned arc for the season and advances the storylines and character arcs. Here's the script and the demos Kai and I recorded."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Spoiler: Rest of Season 7

Anyone that previously died was its rule. Even if they were revived afterwards. It appeared as Joyce in Dead People and a couple dream sequences. Cassie. I would characterise Jonathan as good, and it came back several times as him. Robin's Mom is another. Plus the potential that commited suicide. There were also plans for a Kendra appearance, but that never came about. And its favorite guise after Jonathan: Sarah Michelle Gellar. Might be missing one or two. Oh, the girl that Caleb murdered in his past.

Spoiler

That's why I thought that the first was Eve from the Garden, because that potential never had a name or never identified herself, so the first could have used her own oldest name for a couple days, rather than using the Potential Slayers actual name, that might not have been Eve at all.

 

[tomalak301]

Sleeper

Coming into Season 7, it sounded like people had some issues with it. I'm still on the front half of the season, but so far I've been really liking it. The mystery of the force beneath is taking shape, and this season doesn't feel depressing. This episode deals with the fallout from Holden telling Buffy about Spike sireing him. Watching Spike's torment was really well played by Marsters and then the ending scene revealing that the big bad is triggering him has me really intrigued. I also found a site that is kinda spoiler free showing the various artists we see performing on the show. I think it was @CorporalClegg who mentioned Aimee Mann way back and she was featured in this episode. I loved the scene at the club with Spike against the other vamp. It added to the intrigue of his torment, which was started when he saw all the previous big bads in the first episode (Or when he got his soul, which I guess goes hand in hand).

Maybe at the end of the season I will know what issues people had, but right now, I'm enjoying this season quite a bit.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seeing Willow's love of her life telling her to commit suicide might have been a really damaging thing, especially if there was backlash on how she was killed off in the first place.

You know that we are supposed to want horrible things to happen to fictional characters? The more we love them the worse they have to be hurt, because that's entertainment.

It may have been the movie Last Action Hero, where one of the villains spins out because the burden of a dead wife and daughter he had been carrying for years (relatively) never happened because no one there was real.

Tara should have been there.

Jessie (from the pilot) should have been there too.

 

[tomalak301]

Never Leave Me

They finally identified the big bad of Season, and I actually kinda found that out after I watched the premiere. Still, that was quite an authoritative entrance for "The First". Everything from the first 9 episodes came together in an amazing final scene that featured the birth of a new ugly looking Demon. As I was watching this episode, I was first thinking this was "Buffy does TNG's The Minds Eye" but then I remembered The Minds Eye was a homage to The Manchurian Candidate. The similarities are there. Visions of people (Or in this case ghosts), trigger warnings, not remembering the act after you do it. Of course I liked The Minds Eye and while I never saw the original Manchurian Candidate, I liked the Denzel Washington version. Really excited to see where this goes.

Also, While I was looking up and spoiling myself on Season 7's big bad, I was reminded that these guys have appeared before in the season 3 episode Amends. That was less than a month ago I saw that episode (And I remember it pretty good), but there has been so much happening since then that I wasn't surprised I might have forgotten about them.

 

[tomalak301]

Bring on the Night

Go Buffy Go!!!!

That was an awesome speech at the end. They suffer a defeat, bring in the motivation speech to boost moral. This arc keeps building and it's great so far. I think the only thing I had issue with in this episode were the Potentials. Their accents are bad, and what the heck was Annabelle thinking. You're being hunted, the best place to be is with the Slayer. Why put yourself at any risk when the other potential slayers are being offed one by one? Also, I wonder if this is really Giles. The last time we saw him one of the First's demons was going to chop his head off. There has to be a reason why they didn't show the end result of that.

Showtime

I think the only issue I might have with these episodes are the potentials themselves. They come across as annoying and whiny. How can they expect to be chosen when they are so fearful of what lies ahead. I get fear is an emotion, but it was like every problem they had some of them complained, like Rona.

Other than that, loved the fight between Buffy and the Uber Vamp. Wasn't really a fan of Giles and Anya against the Brain though. Or was it a Horta, or was it a Babylon 5 keeper. That thing was weird. Still, we're learning more about the First, and Buffy rescued Spike finally. I call that a win win.

Also, we first meet Rick Gonzalez (Arrow), and now we see Badison (Orange is the New Black). Man were they young. I also noticed this was Falicia Day's first episode. I looked up her picture and she's the one in the Beanie. She was kinda annoying.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I think she meant that she didn't want the last time that fans saw Tara to be "her" trying to get Willow to kill herself. Particularly LGBTQ fans for whom Willow and Tara were extremely important. Speaking as I bi man, I can only imagine how important it was for many lesbians to see Willow and Tara on mainstream television. Let alone any women who came out to their loved ones as a result.

Given the high suicide rates of LGBTQ teenagers, especially at the time it aired, it could've potentially been harmful.

 

[tomalak301]

Potential

This was an episode I was fearful was going to be Slayer trains the annoying potentials all the way through but it actually turned into something pretty good. It was a show with a message of you don't need to have special powers to be great or as Xander put it, Extraordinary. Actually, his speech to Dawn at the end was the first time I actually respected Xander since prior to the wedding episode. It was wisdom advice for someone who really needed some, and Xander was the perfect one to do it. Other highlights of this episode was seeing Clem again, and watching Amanda go from scared to getting the adrenaline rush. See she's the example of what I thought a potential could be, which was why in the previous episodes watching the other potentials constantly complain didn't ring true to me. Yeah they don't have slayer strength, but they were chosen as potentials for a reason. To paraphrase Liam Neeson, I would think the potentials have a "special set of skills".

By the way, this taking place my first year in Community College, I love getting the rash of early 2000s pop culture references. Tivo, Jackass, Britney Spears, and I'm sure I'm missing countless others.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Given the high suicide rates of LGBTQ teenagers, especially at the time it aired, it could've potentially been harmful.

But Willow chooses life and sees though the trick.

Even if Amber had accepted her invitation for a cameo, she would have been the F#### and not Tara, and Willow would have still seen though the trick.

That's good, not bad.

 

[OCD Geek]

But Willow chooses life and sees though the trick.

Even if Amber had accepted her invitation for a cameo, she would have been the F#### and not Tara, and Willow would have still seen though the trick.

That's good, not bad.

In isolation, yes. Had Tara died by literally any other means (cancer, car accident, etc.), yes. But this was just a few months after one of the most controversial and infamous cases of "Burying your gays": The needless shooting death of Tara.

One of the few major LGBTQ characters in primetime in 2002. At a time when Ellen DeGeneres's career was still dead simply for daring to come out in primetime five years earlier (Finding Nemo and her talk show were still a year away). And at a time when anti-gay marriage sentiment was swept up into Bush's post-9/11 "Disagreeing with any of my policies is unamerican/unpatriotic" fervor.

They were dark times for the LGBTQ community in the US. And the extremely visible representation thanks to Willow and Tara coupled with their popularity (even among straight fans) was one of the few rays of hope.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Even though they didn’t get a happy ending in the show, I’m glad Willow and Tara were my introduction to LGBTQ representation.

And speaking of Sunnydale’s favourite resident witches, Happy Pride Month.

 

[Forbin]

I'd forgotten about how they teased us into wondering if that was Giles or the First pretending to be Giles. That was a strange and uncertain time.