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Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

What is the general opinion on the Season 8-12 comics? I really liked the first three Season 8 collections, I'd probably put them right up there with the best stories on the show, and most of the others sound pretty interesting.

The general consensus seems to be:

Joss Whedon's Season Eight (40 issues) 2007-2011
Starts really strong, gets weaker after the first three arcs and goes completely off the rails in the final two arcs with some of those bullshit completely out-of-character plot twists, but from Whedon himself rather than Noxon this time.

Andrew Chambliss' Season Nine (25 issues) 2011-2013
More going off the rails.

Christos Gage's Season Ten (30 issues) 2014-2016
The best season of Buffy since Season 5, but not as good as Gage's previous acclaimed run on the Angel comic. The other writers' Angel runs were flawed but interesting fan fiction at best and dumpster fires at worst. There's a reason Gage inherited the Buffy comic and was invited to join Daredevil's writing staff by the former Buffy/Angel writers that showran it.

Christos Gage's Season Eleven (12 issues) 2016-2018
Really good, but not a great as Season 10 due to the extremely condensed issue run (Thanks to much lower sales caused by Season 9 and the back half of Season 8).

Christos Gage & Joss Whedon's Season Twelve: The Reckoning (4 issues) 2018
Let's force Whedon and Christos Gage to wrap up the entire Buffyverse (including Angel and Whedon's well-liked Fray miniseries) and most of your beloved characters from three different series in only four issues. How could that possibly come across as extremely rushed?

EDIT: If you want some spoilers for what "going off the rails" entails, I'd be happy to give you a spoiler tagged list.
 
They should have went with shorter "seasons" right from the start. I don't think that Joss Whedon was really taking into account the pacing issues inherent with releasing a story on a monthly basis compared to a weekly one. Fray is still the best thing to come from the canon comics, and she was the first thing Joss introduced!
 
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That Angel run by Gage is superb too. As much as a slog most of IDW's post-series Angel stuff and Dark Horse's post-series Buffy and Angel stuff were, Whedon's Fray and Gage's Angel were absolutely fucking worth it.

Brian K. Vaughan's arc of Season 8 (which was originally supposed to be a DVD movie written by him before Fox decided they would only pay the actors scale) was really good too, albeit not as amazing as the other two. It's also necessary reading before Gage's Angel.
 
Is that the one with Faith and Lady Genevieve?
EDIT: If you want some spoilers for what "going off the rails" entails, I'd be happy to give you a spoiler tagged list.
Yeah, go ahead, I'm curious. I don't mind spoilers.
 
Is that the one with Faith and Lady Genevieve?

Yeah. Would have made for a great movie.

Yeah, go ahead, I'm curious. I don't mind spoilers.
*deep breath*
Season 8's Big Bad Twilight? It's actually Angel, who wants to end our universe (thereby killing all the Scoobies and the Fang Gang) by having sex in space with Buffy. Buffy is surprisingly cool with this, but eventually comes to her senses and makes him pull out. ...IN SPACE!

Giles knew about this from the very beginning, but never said anything. Angel snaps his neck and kills him. But have no fear! Spike is here with a spaceship full of his sentient bug friends! And that's canon.

Xander's fucking Dawn. Xander's fucking Dawn!!!

The Master was alive and living in the hole that used to be Sunnydale the entire time! He was protecting (???) the massive egg that's the source of all magic. Canon!

Buffy sleeps with a slayer and then treats her like shit afterwards because she means nothing to her. "I'm just your leader and mentor. You want me to respect you and your feelings? Pfft I'm Parker Abrams now, bitch!"

Riley's working as a double agent for Buffy and is living in deep cover working under Angel/Twilight and completely destroys his life, spirit and marriage in the process for the greater good. Buffy uses him for sex too.

Buffy wakes up after a party and forgets which man in her life she slept with. When she eventually finds that she's pregnant, she decides she's not ready to be a mother and goes to a get an abortion. It's a surprisingly moving and powerful storyline until that patented Season 6-9 plot twist: She's not pregnant. She was a robot the whole season!

Now that there's no more magic in the world since The Master's egg was broken, newly turned vampires have no personalities and are referred to as "zompires".

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I missed some shit.
 
They should have went with shorter "seasons" right from the start. I don't think that Joss Whedon was really taking into account the pacing issues inherent with releasing a story on a monthly basis compared to a weekly one. Fray is still the best thing to come from the canon comics, and she was the first thing Joss introduced!
Yeah, I was looking at that thinking 30-40 issues seems like more than a "season" in comic terms to me.
 
*deep breath*
Season 8's Big Bad Twilight? It's actually Angel, who wants to end our universe (thereby killing all the Scoobies and the Fang Gang) by having sex in space with Buffy. Buffy is surprisingly cool with this, but eventually comes to her senses and makes him pull out. ...IN SPACE!

Giles knew about this from the very beginning, but never said anything. Angel snaps his neck and kills him. But have no fear! Spike is here with a spaceship full of his sentient bug friends! And that's canon.

Xander's fucking Dawn. Xander's fucking Dawn!!!

The Master was alive and living in the hole that used to be Sunnydale the entire time! He was protecting (???) the massive egg that's the source of all magic. Canon!

Buffy sleeps with a slayer and then treats her like shit afterwards because she means nothing to her. "I'm just your leader and mentor. You want me to respect you and your feelings? Pfft I'm Parker Abrams now, bitch!"

Riley's working as a double agent for Buffy and is living in deep cover working under Angel/Twilight and completely destroys his life, spirit and marriage in the process for the greater good. Buffy uses him for sex too.

Buffy wakes up after a party and forgets which man in her life she slept with. When she eventually finds that she's pregnant, she decides she's not ready to be a mother and goes to a get an abortion. It's a surprisingly moving and powerful storyline until that patented Season 6-9 plot twist: She's not pregnant. She was a robot the whole season!

Now that there's no more magic in the world since The Master's egg was broken, newly turned vampires have no personalities and are referred to as "zompires".

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I missed some shit.
Vampires were outed to the world after Harmony bit A. Dick.

Giles was brought back to life by his weird aunts who recreated his body as a teenager, with all the hormones that go with it.
 
Vampires were outed to the world after Harmony bit A. Dick.

Giles was brought back to life by his weird aunts who recreated his body as a teenager, with all the hormones that go with it.
Don't forget Mecha-Dawn!
 
*deep breath*
Season 8's Big Bad Twilight? It's actually Angel, who wants to end our universe (thereby killing all the Scoobies and the Fang Gang) by having sex in space with Buffy. Buffy is surprisingly cool with this, but eventually comes to her senses and makes him pull out. ...IN SPACE!
I heard about Twilight=Angel, but now the rest of that, yikes.

Giles knew about this from the very beginning, but never said anything. Angel snaps his neck and kills him. But have no fear! Spike is here with a spaceship full of his sentient bug friends! And that's canon.
Yikes.
Xander's fucking Dawn. Xander's fucking Dawn!!!
:barf:
The Master was alive and living in the hole that used to be Sunnydale the entire time! He was protecting (???) the massive egg that's the source of all magic. Canon!
:wtf:
Buffy sleeps with a slayer and then treats her like shit afterwards because she means nothing to her. "I'm just your leader and mentor. You want me to respect you and your feelings? Pfft I'm Parker Abrams now, bitch!"
I knew about Buffy and Satu, but not the rest of that, yikes again.

Riley's working as a double agent for Buffy and is living in deep cover working under Angel/Twilight and completely destroys his life, spirit and marriage in the process for the greater good. Buffy uses him for sex too.
Wow, that gets another yikes.
Buffy wakes up after a party and forgets which man in her life she slept with. When she eventually finds that she's pregnant, she decides she's not ready to be a mother and goes to a get an abortion. It's a surprisingly moving and powerful storyline until that patented Season 6-9 plot twist: She's not pregnant. She was a robot the whole season!
Yikes.
Now that there's no more magic in the world since The Master's egg was broken, newly turned vampires have no personalities and are referred to as "zompires".
So that's what Zompires are. I kept seeing references to them when I was reading through the descriptions for the collections.
Vampires were outed to the world after Harmony bit A. Dick.

Giles was brought back to life by his weird aunts who recreated his body as a teenager, with all the hormones that go with it.
I knew everyone found out about Slayer and Vampires, but not how. Yikes.
I actually thought teenage Giles sounded like it could be kind of funny when I found out about it.
 
That's part of the problem. It's extremely out of character. Look, Spike is a soulless monster and a serial murderer. There's no doubt about that. But he's always been extremely respectful of women, even in his soulless afterlife. Well, except for Harmony. He was always a dick to Harmony.

I wouldn't call Spike respectful of any women or humans in general, but maybe what made the scene seem out of character was we had been shown that what he felt for Buffy was far more than just lust. He really cared about her well being beyond his desire to be with her.

But "nicer" guys than Spike have tried to rape or otherwise control women whether they were wives or girlfriends. So, Spike's actions were unexpected but perhaps not really "out of character".

Michelle Branch also performed Goodbye to You at the end of an episode of Charmed where, you guessed it, a couple broke up. :)
 
Yeah. Would have made for a great movie.


*deep breath*
Season 8's Big Bad Twilight? It's actually Angel, who wants to end our universe (thereby killing all the Scoobies and the Fang Gang) by having sex in space with Buffy. Buffy is surprisingly cool with this, but eventually comes to her senses and makes him pull out. ...IN SPACE!

Giles knew about this from the very beginning, but never said anything. Angel snaps his neck and kills him. But have no fear! Spike is here with a spaceship full of his sentient bug friends! And that's canon.

Xander's fucking Dawn. Xander's fucking Dawn!!!

The Master was alive and living in the hole that used to be Sunnydale the entire time! He was protecting (???) the massive egg that's the source of all magic. Canon!

Buffy sleeps with a slayer and then treats her like shit afterwards because she means nothing to her. "I'm just your leader and mentor. You want me to respect you and your feelings? Pfft I'm Parker Abrams now, bitch!"

Riley's working as a double agent for Buffy and is living in deep cover working under Angel/Twilight and completely destroys his life, spirit and marriage in the process for the greater good. Buffy uses him for sex too.

Buffy wakes up after a party and forgets which man in her life she slept with. When she eventually finds that she's pregnant, she decides she's not ready to be a mother and goes to a get an abortion. It's a surprisingly moving and powerful storyline until that patented Season 6-9 plot twist: She's not pregnant. She was a robot the whole season!

Now that there's no more magic in the world since The Master's egg was broken, newly turned vampires have no personalities and are referred to as "zompires".

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I missed some shit.

Vampires were outed to the world after Harmony bit A. Dick.

Giles was brought back to life by his weird aunts who recreated his body as a teenager, with all the hormones that go with it.
I have to admit, even though this all sound a bit bizarre, I'm still curious to check out the comics, just to see exactly how everything plays out.
 
I have to admit, even though this all sound a bit bizarre, I'm still curious to check out the comics, just to see exactly how everything plays out.
Start with Fray. Despite being set in the 23rd century, it figures into the story big time.
 
Oh lord, "Seeing Red" ...

The first time I watched the series, I knew in advance about Joyce and Tara's deaths, but didn't know how they would happen. The knowledge that Tara would die was always in the back of my mind, but at the beginning of "Seeing Red" I saw Amber Benson's name in the main titles and thought "Oh hey, I guess she's going to be around for a while after all!"

Dammit, Joss.

On rewatches, there's a single shot that always gives me an immediate sense of dread. It's that overhead shot in Buffy's bathroom. The second the camera switches to that image ... that's when you know there's no delaying it anymore. "It" being the attempted rape, Tara's death, and basically the darkest the series ever gets.
 
Season 6 Finale

I have mixed feelings about those episodes. The first part is pretty much continuing to watch Willow growing as basically the Dark Pheonix (It was pointed out in the episode, and honestly it was good timing with the movie coming out) and I liked the fight between Her and Buffy and then Giles comes back. My issue is mainly with part 2. Now to get the good stuff first, I loved the scenes with Dawn and Buffy. They really did grow a part as the season went on and Buffy's realization that she was harming Dawn by not showing her the world was a big revelation. I hope in season 7 they actually do have qualities of Sister to Sister because Buffy is finally back and doesn't consider the world hell.

I think my issue with this episode though is Willow. Willow becoming this dark powerful Wicka was predicated on Tara's death. We went through some of the season dealing with Willow's addiction and recovery, but it was all set back because a stray bullet killed her girlfriend. I almost wish if they did want to make this season dark they would have had Willow become evil a lot sooner, and Tara would still be alive serving as that loving anchor for the scoobie gang. It felt like this season needed one more big epic thing and the Willow as dark witch was kinda tacked on. Also, Xander became insufferable post wedding. From leaving Anya at the alter, to being angry at all his friends, to thinking he was the Victim, I couldn't root for him anymore. To see him talk Willow down and not Buffy or even Tara was kind of anti-climatic. Just imagine the power of love if it had been Tara who saved Willow. The girlfriend who walked out on Willow because she couldn't take Willow's magic addiction being the one to save her by true love. Now that is what love can do, and that would have been a much more satisfying ending. You don't even need to change much. You can leave Buffy and Dawn because that story is important, Xander can be helping Anya with Giles, and Tara becomes the hero because she really was the Hero this entire season.

I think if I were to say if I liked the finale overall, I thought it was ok but anti-climatic. It was done basically because of the bury your gays troupe when it didn't have to be and they could have just written her addiction but not the recovery, at least until Season 7.

As for this season as a whole, I don't think it was as good as Season 5, 2, or 3, but I did think the show went into interesting directions. It handled themes of addiction and depression well, and that 4 episode punch of Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa, Smashed, and Wrecked was probably the highest point of the season. I've already talked about the controversial scene so I won't do that here, other than to say I feel like the writers were doing things to pour on the drama and the narrative could have been a lot tighter. I've heard this season being called controversial, and maybe it is, but it also dealt with some adult themes and did so in a very enlightning way. I just wish the end of the season was as good as the middle.

Anyway, my top 5 for this season would be:

Once More with Feeling
Tabula Rasa
Normal Again
Wrecked
Flooded

One more season to go. It's been such a fun journey and I'm actually going to be sad when I reach the end.
 
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