And showing the actual bruise didn’t help either.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
And showing the actual bruise didn’t help either.
Even Noxon's original version is attempted rape. Imagine if Noxon's boyfriend tried to pull that shit. Attempted rape is attempted rape, regardless of the gender of the aggressor.
I knew about the everything else related to that scene and the fallout, but I never knew about the "It's based on a rape I attempted myself. LOL" origin. Holy fucking shit! It was already bad, but that makes it significantly worse.
EDIT: I just confirmed this origin story with my sisters (who were gender studies double majors that looked into the problematic aspects of Buffy for fun). They were like, "You didn't know that?!" Nope. No I did not.
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I didn't know that about the rape scene either, that is really messed up.
The rape scene was definitely the biggest mistake they made in the entire run of the series. The only, very, very small positive to come out of it is it did lead Spike down an interesting new path that continued into Angel, and I think possibly even into the comics.
Tara's death pissed me off, she was one of my favorite characters, and I loved her and Willow together. I have to confess, their relationship was what introduced me to the existence of gay people.
Me too, that is a hell of a one, two punch to have in the same episode.
The rape scene was definitely the biggest mistake they made in the entire run of the series. The only, very, very small positive to come out of it is it did lead Spike down an interesting new path that continued into Angel, and I think possibly even into the comics.
Tara's death pissed me off, she was one of my favorite characters, and I loved her and Willow together. I have to confess, their relationship was what introduced me to the existence of gay people.
I actually liked her and Kennedy's relationship in Season 7, so I was pissed off again, when they broke up off screen between Seasons 7 and 8.
I thought I was going to be in a minority in regards to the rape scene. I'm not sure if it was a "mistake" per say, but it was one of those "we could do this but should we do this" type moments. It's one thing to push the envelope, but when you have an entire season where you're pushing the envelope, where is the line. I think they did cross it.
I was thinking about waiting until tonight to post this, but I couldn't sleep last night and I ended up seeing Villains. I know about Dark Willow and Spike going to recover his soul now. I couldn't believe how dark they made Willow, just because of Tara's death. Considering the amount of care the show took to deal with addiction, it was a death of a loved one that made her not only go back but become a lot more powerful. Warren was a waste of space, but that scene where she takes his skin right off was shocking to say the least. As for Spike's soul mission, this was why I quoted your post. I get the feeling after the attempted rape and now that Spike really didn't know what he was doing and was mad at himself for doing it. Do I condone what he did? Absolutely not. Still, this direction in the character really isn't as sudden if you understand the journey he was already on. It almost seemed like what he did was the tipping point, positive or negative.
I was thinking about waiting until tonight to post this, but I couldn't sleep last night and I ended up seeing Villains. I know about Dark Willow and Spike going to recover his soul now. I couldn't believe how dark they made Willow, just because of Tara's death. Considering the amount of care the show took to deal with addiction, it was a death of a loved one that made her not only go back but become a lot more powerful. Warren was a waste of space, but that scene where she takes his skin right off was shocking to say the least. As for Spike's soul mission, this was why I quoted your post. I get the feeling after the attempted rape and now that Spike really didn't know what he was doing and was mad at himself for doing it. Do I condone what he did? Absolutely not. Still, this direction in the character really isn't as sudden if you understand the journey he was already on. It almost seemed like what he did was the tipping point, positive or negative.
Like I said before, I think Noxon was watching Greenwalt & Bell's Angel and taking notes. But she took away the absolute wrong lessons. Yes, Angel gets darker as it goes along and horrible things happen to the characters we love. Yes, Angel features frequent game-changing twists that forever alter the status quo. Yes, the Angel characters you love do some shocking, jaw-dropping things that have major impacts on their character arcs and the story at large. Yes, Angel pushed the envelope in terms of these beloved characters and the world they inhabit.
But all of these things on Angel were never at the cost of burying your gays (the fridging of Tara), grossly out-of-character moments (Spike's attempted rape) or character derailment (Xander becoming a massive asshole again after flirting with not being a massive asshole for once).
Granted, there were a couple controversial twists in Angel: Season 4, but they were (mostly) smoothed over by later developments in Season 5. It's like Noxon really wanted to get the characters from point A to point B, but couldn't brainstorm how to do it except in the most horrific, moronic ways possible. The character changes I greatly approve of (Xander's re-assholing aside), but the ways she went about it are complete bullshit. And while Season 7 tones this down a little, it's still a massive problem all through the rest of her run. We've got another whole season to come of Scoobies being uncharacteristic assholes to each other.
Well, that's reassuring.
If it helps, it's not as depressing as Season 6 and Noxon's character derailment tendencies (while still an issue) is slightly toned down. Plus Season 7 has more stone cold classics than Season 6 does, in my opinion. The final season does have fewer fans than Season 6, but there are episodes, characters and moments that make it more than worth at least one run through.
You have the big arrival of Drew Goddard in the writing staff to look forward to, for one thing. And the series finale does manage to stick the landing. Which is more than the majority of post-script seasons from other shows can claim.
I didn't know who that was so I looked him up. He did big stuff like Alias, Lost, Daredevil, and he did the adapted screenplay for The Martian, a movie that I really liked. That's a good thing.
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Season 7 introduces a lot of likable characters.
It is also featuring a lot of past and future Joss Whedon alumni actors and actresses including Felicia Day.
All in all I enjoy S7.
It is also featuring a lot of past and future Joss Whedon alumni actors and actresses including Felicia Day.
All in all I enjoy S7.
Nathan Fillion!
He also joined Angel's writing staff for its final season, and went on to co-write and direct The Cabin in the Woods for Whedon. He has a similar origin story to Ronald D. Moore. A non-professional writer that sent a spec script to his favorite TV show on a whim and ended up one of the strongest writers in the entire franchise.
He's by far the best acquisition from the Noxon era. I was never impressed with Drew Z. Greenberg's work on UPN era Buffy or Firefly, although he grew into a great genre writer in his own right by the time he worked on The Clone Wars, Arrow and Agents of SHIELD. He just wasn't finished baking yet.
I enjoy Season 7 quite a bit, I don't like it quite as much as Seasons 4 or 5, but I definitely like it better than 6 and 1.
I think Season 4 is underrated. Yeah, the myth arc completely goes to shit, but there are some stone cold classics (Fear Itself, Wild at Heart, Hush, This Year's Girl/Who Are You?, Restless) and several great episodes (The Freshman, The Harsh Light of Day, Pangs, Something Blue, A New Man, New Moon Rising) to more than make up for it.
For the record, I think Season 2 is the polar opposite of Season 4. A fantastic myth arc frequently interrupted by mostly weak standalones. Seasons 3 & 5 were the perfect mix of great a myth arc and great standalones, in my opinion.
For the record, I think Season 2 is the polar opposite of Season 4. A fantastic myth arc frequently interrupted by mostly weak standalones. Seasons 3 & 5 were the perfect mix of great a myth arc and great standalones, in my opinion.
And season 1 had the master. Looking back, thank god the show got better and lost the kid. That feels so very long ago.
And season 1 had the master. Looking back, thank god the show got better and lost the kid. That feels so very long ago.
The Anointed One was actually originally supposed to be the Big Bad of Season 2 before Angelus arrived halfway through the season. Then Whedon realized that the kid's balls were starting to drop hard (playing a character that shouldn't be able to age), so he came up with Drusilla and Spike instead. Thank God for puberty.
One of life’s greatest gifts, maybe.
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