Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

[CorporalClegg]

Yes it was, but Buffy died, was revived and got stronger? I hope the next episode explains that one.

Other than that, yeah Prophecy Girl was a fantastic episode. It did what a finale is supposed to do, culminate the season and have a really cool climax. I have to say I wasn't entirely a fan of Xander though. Since when was he interested in Buffy. I thought it was Willow.

She was "stronger" in that she was more confident in herself.

The main theme throughout the first season was her trying to find accord between the slayer part of her self and the normal high school student part of her self. It was her initial rejection of Giles. Her wanting to return to cheerleading. Her inability to keep up with her biology homework, even with her teacher rooting for her. Her trying to date Owen. So on and so forth.

In the end, it was the slayer part that killed her, but it was the "normal" boy (and not Angel) who breathed new life into her. The two sides of her working together.

"I may be dead, but I'm still pretty." Was her saying (to herself) "I may be a mystical badass from a long line of mystical badasses, but I can still go to prom."

 

[Guy Gardener]

She ate something in episode s05e01, and Buffy reacted like it was pcp.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think it was something more than just confidence, it made her resistance to the master's telekinesis.

 

[tomalak301]

There are some consequences to Buffy's death that will show up down the line, but I'm really not sure what needs to be explained about the death itself?

The master drained the energy he needed to escape then left her to drown. Xander performed CPR. It was a totally non-supernatural resurrection, no weird effects on Buffy herself whatsoever. But it was enough to fully fulfill the prophecy - the Slayer met the Master and died - and her coming back and getting a second chance was enough to throw him off his game and give her the confidence she didn't have when her death was still assured by unbreakable prophecy.

So he didn't really "kill" her per say, but she was almost dead? I guess I was caught up with the how more than anything.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Nah. She was good and properly dead.

...But only for a minute.

 

[USS Firefly]

No Buffy was dead but Xander brought her back

 

[CorporalClegg]

I started season 2 tonight, and I have to say there is a new confidence in the show that made it a whole lot more energetic.

You're not wrong. There was a lot of restructuring that went on during the offseason. Basically, Prophecy allowed the network to trust Whedon more and let-up on the reins a little. So he then turned around and brought a few new people, specifically a new composer (which plays a BIG part in that "confidence" thing you speak of) and some new writers - two of whom were women. (And one of them actually wrote on DS9 for a bit.)

In fact, it's worth noting the network was so happy with Prophecy is basically became a prototype for the show. And since the entire first season was done all at once, they let him got back and touch-up a lot of bits in previous episodes. There are like 2-3 minutes of almost every episode in season one that Joss went back and reshot after the fact because he was unhappy with what the other directors did. So, yeah, Prophecy basically acted as the blueprint going forward. (Though there are still a few clunkers in season 2.)

I really hope they explain the whole Buffy Dies but doesn't thing

I think you're waay over thinking it. It's really as simple as she drowned and Xander resuscitated her. Medically speaking, she was dead. Now if they wanted to be more realistic about it, they would have shown Xander doing mouth to mouth while Angel gave chest compressions along with the occasional precordial thump. But Whedon probably left all that out to preserve the poetry of it all. However, what happened was not beyond the scope of medical possibility, especially given Buffy's age and the fact she's in exceptional shape - and that's before you account of the whole superpowers thing.

By the way, the standard in which I set female heroines (And I mean this in the most complimentary way possible) is Aeryn Sun from Farscape, and Ellen Ripley from Aliens. To say Geller is getting close to that level is saying a lot.

It's worth noting that being "a strong woman" doesn't just mean being physically strong. Ripley herself was much different in Alien. She was more about the thinkin' than the slayin' so to speak. Just something to keep in mind going forward.

 

[tomalak301]

It's worth noting that being "a strong woman" doesn't just mean being physically strong. Ripley herself was much different in Alien. She was more about the thinkin' than the slayin' so to speak. Just something to keep in mind going forward.

I know. Why do you think I included Aeryn in that. The Aeryn you see in the premiere (The physically Strong one note Aeryn) is very different from the Aeryn on the Boat telling John the Baby was his and that one minute of happiness they shared. It's the journey that I love. The same can be said about Buffy, which you eloquently pointed out. She goes from fighting the human and slayer side of her to having a death experience (And you're right, I probably am overthinking it but it was still unexpected) to accepting her two sides working together. Heck, at the end of the season 2 premiere where she is accepted back and there is no dialogue and it just shows Buffy smiling, it was one of those moments where I think the "True" Buffy has finally arrived. Like John Chrichton says to Aeryn, "You Can Be So Much More".

Also, just for clarification, I loved Ripley in Alien. However, her journey for being a side character in Alien to taking on the Alien Queen just to save a child's life is one example of how badass she was, and still continues to be.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

So he didn't really "kill" her per say, but she was almost dead? I guess I was caught up with the how more than anything.

Nah. She was good and properly dead.

...But only for a minute.

No Buffy was dead but Xander brought her back

For full clarity, she died of the water (drowning), not the bite, which is why Xander was able to rescusitate her. But she was clinically dead thereby fulfilling the prophecy.

 

[JD]

The matter of her death with all it‘s consequences will be revisited.

Buffy's death leads to the introduction of one of my favorite elements of the franchise.

Spoiler: The thing it leads to

Faith. I really loved her whole arc through both Buffy and Angel.

I liked his specific episode but right now he’s kind of the heartthrob for Buffy. We got his backstory and his scenes with Giles were good but I would like to know more about “him”. Basically I hope he becomes more than just a vampire with a soul in a love triangle with Buffy and Xander.

He does get quite a bit of development as the show goes on, even before he leaves for his show.

 

[tomalak301]

Some Assembly Required was a bit of a mixed bag for me. I liked the storyline with the modern day Frankenstein (Even though is Cordelia going to be the main target this season?) but they went deeper with the Angel Angst and that's already a turn off for me. I get this is a show on the WB and, heck, love angst is still happening on the CW shows, but I'm already looking forward to moving past this to something else. On the other hand I hope Giles and Jenny become a thing. They are adorable together, in their own awkward kind of way.

I think the biggest thing I noticed about this episode is it felt like the Joss Whedon-isms were born here. There were so many snappy one liners (especially coming from Xander of all people) that it almost felt like he was trying too hard.

 

[tafkats]

Some Assembly Required was a bit of a mixed bag for me. I liked the storyline with the modern day Frankenstein (Even though is Cordelia going to be the main target this season?) but they went deeper with the Angel Angst and that's already a turn off for me.

Season 2 is definitely the season of angst and moping, which is probably why it's the one I rewatch the least, but it's still worth it. There are some very strong episodes in there.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Season 2 is definitely the season of angst and moping.

Not 6?

 

[tomalak301]

SPIKE!!!!!!

Ok, I have a question. Did you all fall in love with Spike during his introduction or did it take a while.

I remember growing up and whenever I would hear friends and acquaintances talk about Buffy, there was one commonality. Everyone loved Spike and James Marsters. I knew he would become a popular character, but holy crap that is how you make an entrance. Not only that, but he took care of the "annoying" one (That was funny by the way. ). I mean last season I called the vampires Corny, this season James Marsters comes in and the Vampires already have a cool voice. It actually reminds me of the Dominion's first episode and the impact they made doing the kamakazie run against the Oddessy. You want to make a great first impression, and man did the Dominion do that.

Other things I loved about this episode (And I think this is my favorite episode of the series so far).

1. I wish everyone can be as cool as Buffy's mom. What a great character she is turning out to be. She was pretty good in the first season, but Sutherland rose the bar here.

2. Principal Snyder is great. I'm actually starting to see Shimmerman as this guy and not Quark. I mean yeah he was great as Quark, but I'm finding Snyder interesting here. What's his deal with the Police guy and the PCP. Something tells me he knows more about the Vampires than he leads on, even though that's pretty dumb trying to escape out a window when the school is pretty much surrounded.

3. I already can't wait till the next Spike episode. What an entrence. The best villains are those that make an incredible first impression: The Borg, Scorpius, the Various Cylon characters on BSG (especially Dean Stockwell). James Marsters killed it as Spike in his very first episode and that greatly excites me for what is to come.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

James Marsters killed it as Spike in his very first episode and that greatly excites me for what is to come.

I'm not going to spoil it for you but I hated what happened to Spike from season 5 onwards.

 

[tomalak301]

I'm not going to spoil it for you but I hated what happened to Spike from season 5 onwards.

Why the negativity? I have a vague idea of what happens later in the series (Based on memory) but here I am being all excited about what I just watched in season 2 and you come in talking about something that won't happen until season 5. Can I at least enjoy the moment?

 

[Skywalker]

Can people please stop with the "Just wait until X happens in episode X or season X"? This is a first-time watch thread. Have some respect.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Three episodes into season 2 and he's already tired of Bangel.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Why the negativity? I have a vague idea of what happens later in the season (Based on memory) but here I am being all excited about what I just watched in season 2 and you come in talking about something that won't happen until season 5. Can I at least enjoy the moment?

How exactly does my opinion impact your enjoyment of the show? You can take my opinion or leave it.

 

[tomalak301]

How exactly does my opinion impact your enjoyment of the show? You can take my opinion or leave it.

It doesn't, but maybe hold that opinion until I get closer to season 5?