Wow. Never knew about that Britney Spears Buffy story.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
Buffy is often cited as being the sort of forebearer of the modern golden age of TV. It was the show that proved TV could stand as art. And no other episode embodies this better than The Body. At the end of the day, OMWF is just a musical. Hush is a little derivative. And Restless is David Lynch turned-up to eleven. But, as far as I know, nothing else quite like this exists. I also think it remains the capstone of Whedon's directorial career - Avengers be damned.
A lot of people complain about the ending. But I think it's perfect. Buffy's been drowned. She had to run her boyfriend through with a sword. Her evil twin switched bodies with her. But those were all the worst moments of The Slayer's life. This is the worst moment in Buffy Summers's life. Yet she can just press pause on the controller and take a moment to grieve as Buffy. There will always be vampires. She will always be The Slayer. It never ends.
And don't feel bad, bro. Everyone cries at Anya. Everyone. Though I suppose if you're like me, you're already dead in the water by then.
Speaking of Anya, she has the most profound line in the whole episode: "I wish that Joyce didn't die." Let that one rattle around in your brain for a minute.
And going back to Made to Love. I get a kick out of the end where April is chewing out all the inspirational cliches and then ends with "Things are always darkest before..." as she shuffles off the robo mortal coil. Those sneaky bastards.
A lot of people complain about the ending. But I think it's perfect. Buffy's been drowned. She had to run her boyfriend through with a sword. Her evil twin switched bodies with her. But those were all the worst moments of The Slayer's life. This is the worst moment in Buffy Summers's life. Yet she can just press pause on the controller and take a moment to grieve as Buffy. There will always be vampires. She will always be The Slayer. It never ends.
And don't feel bad, bro. Everyone cries at Anya. Everyone. Though I suppose if you're like me, you're already dead in the water by then.
Speaking of Anya, she has the most profound line in the whole episode: "I wish that Joyce didn't die." Let that one rattle around in your brain for a minute.
And going back to Made to Love. I get a kick out of the end where April is chewing out all the inspirational cliches and then ends with "Things are always darkest before..." as she shuffles off the robo mortal coil. Those sneaky bastards.
Funny thing is, back when this first aired, a lot of people were so desperate for a reset button they convinced themselves that Dawn reaching for Joyce and not quite touching her was proof the next episode would start with Dawn having some magical key power that just casually resurrected Joyce just like that. So glad that never happened.
I was expecting another Dawn moment there, but it wasn't. You're right. That was pretty sneaky.
That would have drastically reduced the impact of this episode though. I'm glad they didn't do that either. This series and the whole Brain Tumer arc was really great at showing how tragic and sudden real life can be. To bring her back immediately after an episode like this would have undone that entire arc. I think the reason why it did work in The Visitor was because show showed how far Jake was willing to go to bring his father back. This was an entirely different matter.
The Body also featured Willow and Tara’s first onscreen kiss, in a heartbreaking moment, and some of Tara’s history is revealed in a conversation between her and Buffy in the hospital waiting room.
This is one of the most powerful episodes of any television series ever filmed. I've only watched it two or three times because of how emotional it is. It also defines the character of Buffy for the rest of the series, the same way losing a parent defines most people for the rest of their lives.
First time I Saw IWMTLH, I was like tomalak in that I think I knew Joyce was supposed to die but didn’t know when or how. When she made it through the brain tumor, I assumed I’d gotten the spoiler wrong. And BAM, at the end of one of show’s most innocuous episodes, in the most matter of fact way, it happens.
The scene was beautifully staged. I think Joss wanted to shock us the same way Buffy was shocked. And SMG”s acting was superb. You can feel her fear and desperation.
Had an argument with sister once about whether or not Buffy was a drama. She had never watched any of the show. I finally described the scene where Buffy finds her mom. That ended the argument.
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The scene was beautifully staged. I think Joss wanted to shock us the same way Buffy was shocked. And SMG”s acting was superb. You can feel her fear and desperation.
Had an argument with sister once about whether or not Buffy was a drama. She had never watched any of the show. I finally described the scene where Buffy finds her mom. That ended the argument.
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Does anyone else remember when FOX, or at least my local Philly affiliate of FOX, took their Monday-Friday "Home of Comedy" 6pm-8pm syndication block (The Simpsons, Malcolm in the Middle, another Simpsons, Seinfeld) and added Buffy to it at 5pm on Saturday nights? That was a bizarre, short lived choice made by someone that either only saw clips or just Jane Espenson episodes.
Something I forgot to mention, I loved that there was no "Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and instead showed that very scene as the teaser to the episode. That's all the previously you really needed for an episode like this, and it was extremely powerful.
One thing that also impressed me was the Christmas Diner scene at the beginning. Even though the main purpose was to have a scene that wasn't really connected to Buffy finding her mom so the credits wouldn't pop up over that stuff it's still jarring to seeing them all happy to Joyces body. Plus each act break I believe begins with us seeing her body.
Jason
Jason
When you get right down to it, the title is probably the worst thing about the show. It's not bad per se, but it completely misrepresents what it's all about. It's sorta like NES box art.
Though I suppose some might assume Angel aired Sunday evenings on CBS.
Though I suppose some might assume Angel aired Sunday evenings on CBS.
I don't know. I think the title indicates the show is going to be quirky. Plus in away it also sort of plays up that Buffy is just some dumb cliche cheerleader who fights vampires which when people find out that isn't what it is about then it works as Satire or Ironic. Granted the movie did kind of live down the title.
Jason
The Body is certainly one of the most brilliant hours of TV ever, in terms of writing, acting directing and cinematography, and I don't think I can ever watch it again.
The episode first aired around the first anniversary of my wife's mother's death, which had been a horribly dragged out ordeal. My wife sat watching the show like normal, doing needlepoint while watching like she always does. When it was over I could see she was tense. I asked her if she was all right and and she said "No, I'm not, I feel like hell."
So, hey, kudos to Joss for succeeding in his goal of creating the most emotionally wrenching hour of TV ever, but... Jeez, man! :O
The episode first aired around the first anniversary of my wife's mother's death, which had been a horribly dragged out ordeal. My wife sat watching the show like normal, doing needlepoint while watching like she always does. When it was over I could see she was tense. I asked her if she was all right and and she said "No, I'm not, I feel like hell."
So, hey, kudos to Joss for succeeding in his goal of creating the most emotionally wrenching hour of TV ever, but... Jeez, man! :O
I thought it was Sopranos people mostly credit for that. The Body is a great episode but I'm not sure non-genre fans were paying enough attention at the time.
I said I was probably going to have more about The Body after sleeping on it and there were a few other things I wanted to talk about. The first was the idea of spoilers and how this episode is an example of some spoilers not really mattering. When I found out that Joyce was going to die, I was worried it was going to be by some evil thing and the impact was not going to be as high as it should have been. Heck, even the episode synopsis spoiled Joyce's death. However, what this episode did was go a lot deeper than just spoilers. It looked at the death of a close relative or loved one, and how the characters react to it, the shock, confusion, and loneliness of it all. What ended up being a spoiler in the end didn't matter because the way this episode was filmed left a lasting impact in ways that are really hard to imagine. With that said I really do appreciate the spoiler free nature of this thread, so thank you. 
That leads me to my second thing and that is I would love like an hour behind the scenes featurette on this episode. I actually read the Wikipedia entry last night and there was a ton of credit to Hannigan and Caulfield. Now, I would include Gellar in that as well as she just knocked it out of the park, but the thing that I read which was interesting was how it was hard for the cast and crew to hold themselves together for this one. This is a fictional series dealing with fantastical elements, there's death every week and most of it is done without a second thought. This episode felt so real, though. I don't think I've ever seen anything like this on any other series ever. This was filmed with no background music, and there were scenes where the noise from surroundings told the story. It was bone-chilling because it was one of those life goes on all around you but you are so shocked and sad that you still feel lost and alone. I'm surprised this episode didn't win an Emmy for best drama alone. It sucks when this genre gets ignored for big awards because I would argue you can do things in the sci fi and fantasy genre that are more real and more emotionally impactful than any drama.
This episode really was a work of art.
That leads me to my second thing and that is I would love like an hour behind the scenes featurette on this episode. I actually read the Wikipedia entry last night and there was a ton of credit to Hannigan and Caulfield. Now, I would include Gellar in that as well as she just knocked it out of the park, but the thing that I read which was interesting was how it was hard for the cast and crew to hold themselves together for this one. This is a fictional series dealing with fantastical elements, there's death every week and most of it is done without a second thought. This episode felt so real, though. I don't think I've ever seen anything like this on any other series ever. This was filmed with no background music, and there were scenes where the noise from surroundings told the story. It was bone-chilling because it was one of those life goes on all around you but you are so shocked and sad that you still feel lost and alone. I'm surprised this episode didn't win an Emmy for best drama alone. It sucks when this genre gets ignored for big awards because I would argue you can do things in the sci fi and fantasy genre that are more real and more emotionally impactful than any drama.
This episode really was a work of art.
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It's better to listen to, but if you're interested here is a link to the transcript of Joss's DVD commentary for this episode:
https://stormwreath.livejournal.com/55973.html
Thank you for that. I actually teared up at the end when he was explaining the final shot. I picked up on a lot of what Joss was intending to do but I'm glad he explained the Vampire bit. On first glance it feels very out of place, but then when you think about it and talk about it, it goes with the surrounding noise of life going on.
That was a great read.
Actually, I don't think it works all that well as "an episode of television." While it stands on its own as a work of art, it fails several storytelling conventions (mostly structural). It really fits the truest definition of 'slice-of-life' instead of a fully developed narrative. So, while I believe it's worth all the praise it gets speaking strictly as a piece of performance art, I certainly don't think it's the best episode of the series. Heck, I don't even think it's the best episode of the season.
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