Buffy season 4

[WillsBabe]

Buffy can finally explore relationships other than those with The Living Impaired.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, I've really enjoyed reading your replies. One thing I forgot to mention, and might be of interest to viewers of Dollhouse, made me smile. After fighting a nest of vamps with Jonathan in Superstar, Buffy is worried about her poor show. Jonathan consoles and encourages her by saying that it's important that she be her best. Buffy replies that she always tries to be her best. It was a small moment that made me do a small double take.

 

[Mr Light]

At the time S4 seemed so horrible, but then S6 came along and it was so, so much worse. Still, the ending of S4 with "Primeval" and "Restless" was awesome. It's just a real shame that the actress playing Walsh didn't stay the whole season as the Big Bad that would have been MUCH better. Particularly with her pairing with Giles as his opposite number. I hated Riley in S4, the character didn't become alright until S5 and then he was gone.

 

[stonester1]

I enjoyed it. I don't think Adam is that bad a villain - granted he may not have had as much personality as the Mayor or Glory, but then he was more of a concept than a character anyway. He was the counterpoint to the fracturing of the central group - literally a man made of different parts working together. So hence the joining spell at the end - Giles, Buffy, Willow and Xander also become one person. Thematically it's perfect, even if Adam wasn't quite as "fun" as he might have been.

What I do enjoy about season 4 is something I see in a lot of Buffy/Angel season constructions, and something that's become a hallmark of nuWho too. That is, the subtle thematic set-up in early episodes, which may seem unconnected to the main arc at first glance but which actually, almost undetectably, prepare the viewer to deal with the same issues in a greater context later.

For example, look at "Fear Itself" - a fun enough throwaway but not an arc episode, right? Except that all of the character issues explored are the ones that are building throughout the rest of the season, and even into later seasons.

"Beer Bad" - Buffy goes cave-girl, but still has her slayer instinct... and at the end of the season, we meet the first ever cave-girl with slayer instinct.

"Wild at Heart" - Another example of the animal that exists within, just like Buffy will confront the Slayer power inside herself and end up cutting herself off to supposedly protect others. Also, Willow resorts to magic as revenge when her emotions are hurt.

"Pangs" - the gang bicker and argue over their differences inside Giles' apartment, which they do again in much bigger circumstances at the end of the season.

"Something Blue" - more reckless magic from Willow, Giles hitting the sauce, Buffy and Spike "in love," etc.

And so on. I love kind of that stuff.

This. Good to great eps above, especially "Pangs". Thanksgiving is a neglected holiday in general, especially in SciFi/Fantasty. It's one of my favs, so it's nice to see it get some love.

"A bear! You made a bear!"

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I don't think there's a season of Buffy that I don't like, sure 4, 6 and 7 do have their fair share of problems, but I think they're exaggerated beyond their real faults.

I think all 7 seasons have their brilliant episodes and their clunkers, and season 4 has a very good ratio so there are some of the best episodes in season 4 if you look for them.

 

[stonester1]

Restless is arguably my all time favorite episode.

 

[Mr Light]

Restless is my favorite episode even over the Musical. It's just so chocked full of amazing detail and foreshadowing and surrealness.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

The season has gotten a little better with age, but the Adam storyline was really un-compelling.

It was all fine until they disposed of Maggie Walsh and had Adam be some big bad leader. He just looked stupid. I will say it's almost like the producers realized their story arc sucked, so they just decided to forgo the substance and went balls to the walls with the action in the penultimate episode (Primevil i think). It really was an impressive spectacle. I also happen to think The Initiative is really interesting as a concept. Not so much on the execution.

S4 has some really good individual episodes though. Restless is fascinating. Hush and part 2 of the Faith storyline are both amazing - in other words Joss made 3 A+ episodes. Some of the standalones are really fun, episodes like Something Blue or the one where Giles becomes a demon, for instance.

Overall I rank it above S6 and 7.

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah, the *concept* of the Initiative is good but they clearly didn't have the budget to follow through on it (cept for that awesome battle in "Primeval"). And Adam did look ridiculous. I'm sure the story would have turned out MUCH better if Walsh had been the baddie and Adam just a soldier.

 

[CorporalClegg]

My take on season 4 is the first half is pretty much excellent, the second half is terrible. I include TYG/WAY in the second half because I fucking hate Faith.

The thing with the first part of season 4 is, while shows like Pangs, Living Conditions, The Freshmen, Fear Itself even Beer Bad. is, while they aren't very strong conceptually, they have some of the show's best humor.

 

[Forbin]

^That's kinda what I always tell people - even a bad Buffy episode has something just dowright fun in it. Well, in the first four seasons, anyway.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Season 4 doesn't have a terribly good story arc compared to season 3 (but then again the Mayor and Faith was a winning combo). Its strengths lie largely in its standalone episodes, many of which are a pure joy to watch (eg Pangs, A New Man, Hush, Superstar, Restless). It looks great, too.

Agreed. And since I tend to focus more on individual episodes than on large arcs, I would call Season 4 the strongest season they ever did, particularly with a lot of the early season comedies.

I love Xander's 1st scene with Buffy in "The Freshman." "Thank you for the Dadaist pep talk. I feel much more abstract now."

..."Fear Itself"...
"Smashing the symbol... is NOT one of them and will in fact summon the fear demon itself!"
"Actual size."

Totally agree about Spike. It was nice to have him there as he was good light relief, but his presence had no purpose whatsoever. The excuses they would keep inventing to keep him around grew thinner and thinner over time.

True, but at least this was back when he seemed harmless & not worth killing. But after he allied himself with Adam in "The Yoko Factor" & "Primeval," I think he proved himself too dangerous to be left alive. It's rediculous that Buffy or Giles or someone didn't stake him after that.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I liked the Scooby Gang's solution to dealing with Adam, especially as it led to them realizing that they do all have valuable traits that they add to the group, something that was an issue for them for most of the season.

Although it sometimes felt like that didn't last. In particular, Xander languished with disuse for much of Seasons 5-7. He did convince Willow not to destroy the world at the end of Season 6 but that's about it.

I only mention it because I recently rewatched "The Replacement," where Xander laments that all he ever does is get in trouble so Buffy can rescue him, which rarely seems to be the case. Granted, Xander isn't exactly thinking straight at that moment but it's not like Willow does much to correct him either. In fact, there are at least 2 big moments when Xander saved the day in "Prophecy Girl" & "The Zeppo." True, Xander got in trouble a couple of times early on in "Teacher's Pet," "The Pack," & "Inca Mummy Girl." But then there was "Bewitched, Bothered, & Bewildered" where Xander got into trouble and Buffy & Willow were absolutely useless in getting him out of it. Or "Lover's Walk," where Spike kidnapped Xander & Willow and it was Cordelia & Oz that found them.

Good to great eps above, especially "Pangs". Thanksgiving is a neglected holiday in general, especially in SciFi/Fantasty. It's one of my favs, so it's nice to see it get some love.

"A bear! You made a bear!"

"I didn't mean to."
"Undo it! Undo it!"

"I'm not evil. Why do people keep saying that? I haven't been evil in a long time."

"Siphyllis!?!?"
"It'll make you blind and insane, but it won't kill you. The small pox will."

I also happen to think The Initiative is really interesting as a concept. Not so much on the execution.

I think maybe the more militaristic, less supernatural aspects of the Initiative might have worked better on Angel.

And I still have an idea for an Initiative spin-off that teams up Riley Finn & Gwen Raiden, with Andrew as their gadget guy.

That's kinda what I always tell people - even a bad Buffy episode has something just dowright fun in it. Well, in the first four seasons, anyway.

Exactly. Like, "Bad Eggs" sucks eggs but it still has this great exchange between Xander & Willow:
"...and teach them good Christian values."
"My egg is Jewish."
"Then teach it that dradle song."

Or Season 4's total dog, "Where the Wild Things Are" (a.k.a. "Buffy & Riley Have Lots of Sex"); it's terrible but it's got a lot of funny bits with Xander, Spike, & Anya.

"Just displaying my knowledge of local history... Or my knowledge of reading."
"And you didn't even have to sound anything out."
"You should see me add short columns of small numbers."

Spike accidentally talks himself out of rescuing Buffy & Riley: "Actually, that all sounds really convincing. I wonder if Asia House is open?"

 

[CorporalClegg]

"Siphyllis!?!?"
"It'll make you blind and insane, but it won't kill you. The small pox will."

I still ROTFL at Nicky's reaction. His "Oh God!" was so perfect.