Bryan Fuller: Diversity is key

[UssGlenn]

I can't think of any "general" war movie which has non-white characters whose ethnicity isn't specifcially tied to the narrative.

That's an unavoidable outgrowth of segregated units during the war. Any movie featuring a segregated unit is going to deal with their race. In fact "Go For Broke" about the 442nd RCT is in production right now. They are the most decorated combat unit in U.S. military history, and all Japanese-American.

 

[cultcross]

^History is written by the winners...so are 'historical' movies.

They're written by Americans. Even the other winners don't often get a look-in except as comic relief

 

[MadeIndescribable]

In fact "Go For Broke" about the 442nd RCT is in production right now. They are the most decorated combat unit in U.S. military history, and all Japanese-American.

That's great, but again goes into my earlier comment that these are narratives designed to tell stories which need to be told, but which don't solve the problem of "general" diversity.

I know WWII has been mentioned alot here, and I guess is often the go-to war for movie makers, but I wasn't referring to it specifically in my comment.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I had to do a case study of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in 1913? in college. Over a hundred "women" (upper teens, early 20's) died, nearly all of them European immigrants mostly jewish. The death toll from the fire was responsible for early labor-organization and workplace safety laws.
So clearly even before WWII women worked, mostly those families that needed every able bodied hand to earn an income to survive, especially Depression-era.
WWII specifically led to the mass mobilization of women in the workplace at historic levels in the United States, and probably most countries as well.
As for black and latino women, i'm just not familiar with and if you have any sources to share i'd appreciate it.

IIRC the difference was in the types of jobs women were hired to do.

 

[Nyotarules]

LCC, no i haven't.

I *don't* know. Regarding your point of "millions of black women, and probably hispanic/latino women" working long before WWII, I was asking what sources you could share with me.
Unless you're referring to pre-emancipation slavery, or the harsh treatment of blacks and minorities in general even after the civil war?

If you are from the United States this is a part of your history, or just speak to someone from the black community who has female relatives still alive from the pre WW2 era.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

C'mon...You got a blonde, a redhead, and a brunette (with a guy thrown in so the fanboys could image he is them/they are him)...

...How much more diversity do you want?

 

[MadeIndescribable]

C'mon...You got a blonde, a redhead, and a brunette (with a guy thrown in so the fanboys could image he is them/they are him)...

...How much more diversity do you want?

Lol, already admitted it sucked at racial diversity, but of the 14 recurring cast members (spread out over 7 seasons), it was an exact 50/50 split.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

What you could do is if you want a setting (place and time) where there just wasn't a lot of women or minorities being treated fairly/given opportunities, you could do a whole bunch of AU TV shows. I'm surprised people aren't painting the history they wish they could have seen by doing that.

So World War II with women generals, etc.

Which would be historically inaccurate, and be (rightfully) be called out for as being so, even if it was an AU.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Which would be historically inaccurate, and be (rightfully) be called out for as being so, even if it was an AU.

It depends how you define AU. High Castle are specifically altering major historical events, whereas if you create a different view of actual history (female generals) people will just ignore the AU tag and moan however they want in the same way as Discovery not being Prime...

 

[tenmei]

It depends how you define AU. High Castle are specifically altering major historical events, whereas if you create a different view of actual history (female generals) people will just ignore the AU tag and moan however they want in the same way as Discovery not being Prime...

The first explanation that popped to mind for an AU with female Generals in WW2 would be the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 disproportionately affecting the armed forces of the major nations, causing David Lloyd George, spurred on by newly elected MP Nancy Astor (the first woman to sit in the House of Commons) and later, in the thirties, by Margaret Bondfield the Minister of Labour (and the first woman to sit in the Cabinet), to never disband the Women's Royal Naval Reserves and using them to flesh out the depleted Navy and implementing the Women's Royal Army Corps 31 years earlier.

But then again, I've got time on my hands.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

The first explanation that popped to mind for an AU with female Generals in WW2 would be the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 disproportionately affecting the armed forces of the major nations, causing David Lloyd George, spurred on by newly elected MP Nancy Astor (the first woman to sit in the House of Commons) and later, in the thirties, by Margaret Bondfield the Minister of Labour (and the first woman to sit in the Cabinet), to never disband the Women's Royal Naval Reserves and using them to flesh out the depleted Navy and implementing the Women's Royal Army Corps 31 years earlier.

But then again, I've got time on my hands.

Have to admit that's a great explanation, but I wonder if any film would go into that much detail or just be like "Female generals, deal with it"

 

[jaime]

There are also those such as Men of Honour (Cuba just gets everywhere doesn't he), Windtalkers and Hidden Figures which all highlight the importance of either ethnic minority contributions to (inter)nationally recognised moments of US pride, and/or important figures who achieved a number of firsts, but these are all created to specifically tell these particular stories.

Whilst these are indeed stories which should be told, going back to the original question of..

I can't think of any "general" war movie which has non-white characters whose ethnicity isn't specifcially tied to the narrative.

There are historically accurate war movies...generally made much closer to ww2...
Then there are popcorn war movies, in which the Americans fought everywhere and almost all looked like John Wayne....
Then there's modern popcorn war movies, which are not about the world wars usually anyway...Vietnam, Iraq....occasionally George Clooney will turn up....
The only thing most of these have in common is the 'movie' part, and reminding us how disposable a male lower class population can sometimes be, and how women are terribly good at being nurses or worrying about the menfolk. Oh...and how wanting to go home and marry your girl and have a farm is actually more fatal than smoking.

In terms of the wars getting women into work...well, it's a bit like suffragettes in film. What they mean is 'well heeled white women' as the poor folk of any colour were already working, and didn't get the vote until much later. (In the UK anyway...not even all men had the vote in most of the popular fiction time periods...there's about ten years between universal suffrage for men and universal suffrage for women in the UK.)

I would like to see some more honest accurate films, but only popcorn flicks or political flicks win awards and audiences. I want to see Red Tails, but I don't go in much for war films in general so haven't got round to it yet. TBH I barely have time for any films xD

I did watch hotel Sahara the other day mind you. Terribly amusing.

 

[publiusr]

Lol, already admitted it sucked at racial diversity, but of the 14 recurring cast members (spread out over 7 seasons), it was an exact 50/50 split.

Voyager's cast was probably the most diverse of all the Treks--and it feels the close to TOS. Janeway, Tuvok and Chakotay were the big three here. The three faces of humanity.

Discovery feels..slicker--maybe that's what is really sticking in folks crop.

DS9 was GQ to Discovery's Esquire, as it were.

 

[jaime]

Lol, already admitted it sucked at racial diversity, but of the 14 recurring cast members (spread out over 7 seasons), it was an exact 50/50 split.

It didn't though...Latina, Latin (Native American) Chinese, African American, originally had a french Captain, there's barely two characters with same hair colour lol...people just don't pay attention. Even TNG had two African Americans, an Englishman, a Greek British woman, and only one white American male on the bridge in its first season (all of whom stuck around, even if geordi left the bridge.)

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Voyager's cast was probably the most diverse of all the Treks--and it feels the close to TOS. Janeway, Tuvok and Chakotay were the big three here. The three faces of humanity.

Discovery feels..slicker--maybe that's what is really sticking in folks crop.

DS9 was GQ to Discovery's Esquire, as it were.

It didn't though...Latina, Latin (Native American) Chinese, African American, originally had a french Captain, there's barely two characters with same hair colour lol...people just don't pay attention. Even TNG had two African Americans, an Englishman, a Greek British woman, and only one white American male on the bridge in its first season (all of whom stuck around, even if geordi left the bridge.)

Just to let you guys know, my post you've quoted was talking about the gender split in Buffy the Vampire Slayer...

 

[Explore This!]

Edited by mod: We don't usually delete posts but the content this (now banned) user posted can actually turn out to be harmful because it spreads dangerous lies by a transphobic and homophobic hate group.

The trekbbs does not tolerate this.

 

[Nerys Myk]

originally had a french Captain

Canadian

 

[Tuskin38]

Canadian

French-Canadian

 

[Nerys Myk]

French-Canadian

Yes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Voyager's cast was probably the most diverse of all the Treks--and it feels the close to TOS. Janeway, Tuvok and Chakotay were the big three here. The three faces of humanity.

DS9 had two ( later three African-Americans), one Anglo-Arab, two women, a Jewish-American, a Swiss-American and an Irishman.