Bruce Maddox and his work...

[JesterFace]

What if Bruce Maddox would've created a ”standard Starfleet android” (like was mentioned in 'The Measure Of a Man') but didn't give it the self awareness that Data has, only create a machine to serve so it wouldn't be in a position where rights of self aware creatures would be in question... Did he have to create an exact copy of Data?

Or maybe copying Soongs work was the only way to get more working Datas ..?

 

[Timo]

We have no independent confirmation that Starfleet would have been interested in getting any androids. Giving in to Maddox' constant pestering about accessing Data, yes, just to get rid of the guy. Purchasing androids based on his research, probably not. After all, they supposedly had not employed any androids back in TOS when those were in ample supply.

Or maybe copying Soongs work was the only way to get more working Datas ..?

I'd surmise the other way around - the only way to properly showcase Soong's work on positronics was to build a Data. Androids as such would be easily built (see "Return to Tomorrow"), and essentially useless - but making one tick with positronics rather than the usual positronics or optronics was an impressive parlor trick that Soong hoped would get the scientific community's attention. After this, positronics could be put to use (which did happen, e.g. allowing Dr. Bashir to install brain prosthetics), and positronic androids could be put to a display case.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2takesfrakes]

As per "Measure of a Man," Data strongly recommended that he "continue (his) work" and that he found some of what he proposed "intriguing." Sounds to me that Bruce was well on his way to establishing non-sentient androids after this episode.

There's a lot to love about this story, but what's so great about it is that Commander Maddox isn't a monster. In the end, we're allowed to like him and it should be like that. He's obsessively barking up the wrong tree, but he's not inherently evil, nor are his attitudes towards Data. They're just misinformed and misguided. And thanks to his own personal journey in this show, he finds illumination. Resultantly, I'm confident that he probably became a champion of android rights, as his own work continued - even if his products never crossed the threshold into Living Beings.

And who knows what the law stipulates, in the fine print, that Phillipa Louvois put into effect. The assumption might be there, in legal terms, of some rudimentary awareness in androids of a certain sophistication. But the implications of this episode with regard to androids is an interesting question. I mean, must Brent Spiner play every android in the whole of the known galaxy? Must they all be golden and yellow-eyed, besides? It went past the point of making the point. Data's one of a kind and it didn't have to be literally so just to make it so ...

 

[Tomalak]

Well we know Maddox continues his work, and Data assists remotely as per his diary entries from Data's Day. I wonder of their dialogue was responsible for Data being able to create Lal in the first place - perhaps Bruce was at the cybernetics conference he attended?

However, we never see any more androids, and Starfleet seems to have ploughed resources into holograms instead. In theory, a Soong-type android could have all of the advantages of the EMH, but none of the disadvantages. Of course holograms weren't intended to be sentient, and Starfleet apparently created thousands of them at the touch of a button. Voyager only scrapes the surface of the moral implications, in 'Author, Author', which came across as a pale imitation of 'The Measure of a Man'.

 

[Timo]

In theory, a Soong-type android could have all of the advantages of the EMH, but none of the disadvantages.

A hologram is invulnerable and infinitely variable in capabilities. What advantage could a Soongian android flaunt?

That sentience would be a platform-related thing doesn't sound reasonable. Androids or holograms are just as sentient as one deigns to turn the knob; sentience is pure software, once you have the fundamental hardware (be it positronic or optronic) available.

Also, it would be a bit stupid for ethical problems to only manifest when sentience is installed in an android body or an androform hologram, although I could well see that happening.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

Well we know Maddox continues his work, and Data assists remotely as per his diary entries from Data's Day. I wonder of their dialogue was responsible for Data being able to create Lal in the first place - perhaps Bruce was at the cybernetics conference he attended?

A hologram is invulnerable and infinitely variable in capabilities. What advantage could a Soongian android flaunt?

The EMH was limited to areas equipped with holo emitters - in theory, anywhere in the ship, but in practice, in sickbay and the holodeck, at least on Voyager. Data could go anywhere.

The EMH was far from invulnerable - susceptible to power outages and computer core damage - not the best weaknesses for a programme designed for emergency medical use, such as in battle or other times of crisis. There are a few Voyager episodes where the Doctor is deactivated to conserve power, or otherwise offline.

The advantages of a Soong android are their physical self-contained nature, and ability to go virtually anywhere. At the same time, they are incredibly quick to learn new things, and could be more adaptable than a hologram. The Doctor was one of a kind in that he was active for long enough to develop some measure of sentience, and was able to expand on his programme and learn new things. The average EMH was simply patched with the latest update, or completely replaced with the newer model. There doesn't appear to be anything stopping Starfleet from simply plugging an android into the computer for a similar direct update, if needed.

Surely androids are just as variable as holograms? It's only Soong's vanity that means all of his looked alike. Not unlike Zimmerman in that respect. What is it with these vain geniuses? There's nothing stopping an android looking like whatever we want. Beyond the human brain-sized positronic neural net, and the power cells, there don't appear to be any other physical limitations to the size of androids.

 

[Timo]

The EMH had a portable emitter. Even if the 24th century Starfleet version is the size of a runabout (we know it's small enough to fit aboard a starship of Defiant size, but little else is known), this would still allow holograms (and at the same cost, one, two, or a thousand of them) to go anywhere, as long as this runabout-sized emitter could loiter in the vicinity. And enemy attacks against the holograms would be futile, whilst enemy attacks against Data would hit their target.

Apart from that, why should Data's little noggin be more adaptable than the computers that run holograms? Less sounds far more probable. Data has physical limitations to his software (measured in a rather small number of cubic inches); holograms do not. Or at least Data has shown no ability to network, while the computers running holograms have shown no inability to.

Are androids variable at all? Data could grow a beard, but that was about it. Anything else would require a factory upgrade, whereas a hologram can change completely and immediately at the press of a button; the EMH could become two sperm whales and a sentient and ravenously carnivorous petunia, say.

Timo Saloniemi