Bright spots in dreary episodes

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Talos IV, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There were an abundance of them in the second season it's true, but this one and Omega I always liked even if Omega is the one that stretches our thinking some what!
    JB
     
  2. Spock's Barber

    Spock's Barber Commodore Commodore

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    I half expected to see a parallel planet episode with guest star John Travolta as the leader of a Disco Planet. :whistle:
     
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  3. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    I'm one of those TOS fans who doesn't care much for "City on the Edge of Forever" - but every scene that has Kirk or Spock speaking to the GoF is a bright spot.

    I LOVE the line (Bolded):
    KIRK: Then what is it?

    GUARDIAN: (The doughnut pulses bright in time with the words) A question. Since before your sun burned hot in space and before your race was born, I have awaited a question.
     
  4. penguin44

    penguin44 Commander Red Shirt

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    Well we did finally see an escalator in TMP at SFHQ
     
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  5. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Errr..no you didn't! Because Travolta wasn't a big star back in the sixties my Lord! :nyah:
    JB
     
  6. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    Good questions. Do we know anything about Kirk's folks from TOS? Was his mom and/or dad in Starfleet (as in JJ-Trek)? If so, maybe his mom, brother (possibly) and he were on the colony/base to be near their dad's posting - as with current military families (my wife was a military brat and moved all over the country living on Air Bases following her dad's Air Force postings - except when he did two tours in Vietnam, then they moved back to her mom's home area.) Was Tarsus IV a Starfleet Base? Maybe more would have been revealed in later episodes if the series continued.
     
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  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would doubt that Tarsus IV was a Starfleet Base to be honest! More like a colony planet of farmers and the like, Henoch for Kodos to declare martial law and execute those he didn't believe were worth saving in the crisis!
    JB
     
  8. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    Yeah, I always wondered how JTK wound up on Tarsus IV. Pity that we never really received an explanation. The whole backstory was fascinating.
     
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  9. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    Whoops, I meant to add a question: does the James Blish adaptation say anything about this matter?
     
  10. Spock's Barber

    Spock's Barber Commodore Commodore

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  11. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is bloody funny! :lol::rofl::guffaw:
    JB
     
  12. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Why indeed?

    If memory serves Blish did say that Kirk was a starfleet member, or an academy midshipman at least, during the massacres on Tarsus IV. Of course as far as we know the minimum age to enter Starfleet or the Academy was seventeen (though there are a few hints it might have been younger), and my post number thirteen on this thread says that Kirk was probably thirteen at Tarsus IV.

    Blish often used early drafts scripts for his adaptations instead of final drafts, and there is a site that discusses the differences between early drafts and final drafts. The Unseen Elements of the Original series Episodes. http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/unseen.htm

    The "Conscience of the King" script had this dialog which is not in the episode as broadcast, and seems to be from the Final revised Draft, September 8, 1966, and with revised pages dated September 12,13,14,15,19,20,22, 1966:

    http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/conscience_of_the_king.htm
    And this speech by Kirk:

    This implies that Kirk was at least twenty and a member of Starfleet when at Tarsus IV, but he was stationed there before the relief force arrived and thus was not one of the relief force. So Kirk would have been part of some large or small Starfleet group assigned to Tarsus IV for some purpose.

    But of course that dialog and the data in them was left out of the episode and so is not canon, and need not be true in the fictional universe of Star Trek.

    http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/conscience_of_the_king.htm

    As I said in post number 13 above, Kirk was probably thirteen at Tarsus IV, and thus probably not yet a member of Starfleet or a cadet at the Academy. In fact, in "Shore Leave" which probably happens soon before or after "Conscience of the King", Kirk was a plebe (first year cadet) at the Academy only 15 years earlier, which seems to rule out any previous membership in Starfleet.

    Memory Alpha also says that Kirk was thirteen at Tarsus IV. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/James_T._Kirk

    And for whatever it might be worth, the official but non canon and possibly incorrect Star Trek Chronology: The History of the Future, 1996, says Kirk was born in 2233 and the Tarsus IV Massacre happened in 2246, the year that Kirk turned thirteen.

    Kevin Riley would have been under ten at Tarsus IV, which would also seem to rule out starfleet membership, so it is a good thing that the episode has mention of his parents being killed there.

    In the episode as broadcast:

    And:

    http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/13.htm

    I have memory of a statement that Kirk and Riley both lost family on Tarsus IV. But that shouldn't be in the final draft script which contains a statement that Kirk didn't have any family on Tarsus IV. So it might have been in Blish's adaptation which might be based on an even earlier script, or in the episode.

    It is not in the episode transcript according to the search I just made.
    http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/13.htm

    So maybe it is in the Blish adaptation, or maybe I just imagined it.

    Memory Alpha says:

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/James_T._Kirk

    And unless there are canon statements that Kirk was on Tarsus IV as a member of Starfleet, or with family members, or something, fans may just have to come up with their own explanations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  13. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    Fantastic answer. Thank you! That is indeed a shame that we were all denied seeing Shatner deliver that speech. Is that what is on the Vault? (I still have not seen it and it's that time of year where I remind myself to figure out where to get a copy.)
     
  14. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    FYI: The second DISCOVERY novel, DRASTIC MEASURES by Dayton Ward, is set during the Tarsus IV and features a young Jim Kirk.
     
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  15. jfordny

    jfordny Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The Way to Eden is one of my guilty pleasure favorites. Kirk's reaction to Herbert is also pure fun gold.
     
  16. Spock's Barber

    Spock's Barber Commodore Commodore

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  17. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    I remember reading a Star Trek novel a long time ago which had a flashback or something to Kirk on Tarsus IV.

    And it might have been one of the Lost Years series:

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kevin_Riley


    All we know about Kirk's father George comes from the alternate universe films, but since George Kirk dies right after reality is changed it is likely that he had the same previous life as the father of Prime Kirk. In the alternate universe George Kirk was a Starfleet officer when James T. Kirk was born, but the prime universe George Kirk could have left Starfleet any time after that or remained in Starfleet for the rest of his life.

    In Star Trek (2009) Spock Prime tells Alternate Kirk:

    So in the prime universe George Kirk should have lived for almost two decades, or more, after the Tarsus IV massacre.

    As for Kirk's mother Winona, there is one semi canon reference to her in filmed but deleted scene from "Operation Annihilate!" where Captain Kirk asks his nephew Peter:

    http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/operationannihilate.htm

    Which may mean that James Kirk's mother is still alive. Though I just realized that since everyone has two grandmother's this could have been the mother of Peter's mother Aurelan Kirk.

    Every other canon reference to Kirk's mother is in Star Trek (2009), where Winona Kirk is a Starfleet officer at the time James T. Kirk is born.

    Of course there are many non canon references to Kirk's parents in various novels.

    In post # 32 above I wrote:

    There are non canon accounts of Kirk's experiences on Tarsus IV, but there doesn't seem to be any canon accounts to make it certain whether Kirk was connected with Starfleet at a very young age somehow, or with his parents, or at Tarsus IV for some other reason, like a trip with the space scouts or winning a vacation on beautiful Tarsus IV as a prize, etc., etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  18. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kirk and Commander Sonak take an escalator at the beginning of TMP. IIRC, they faked the effect with a crane or a forklift for filming, but it was obviously supposed to be an escalator.
     
  19. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    In "Mark of Gideon" Spock defying the suits at Admiralty was a highlight of one of my least favourite TOS episodes.
     
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  20. Spock's Barber

    Spock's Barber Commodore Commodore

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    Spock was stuck in the middle between the Starfleet bureaucracy and the Gideon idiocracy. ;)