Not sure how that would count as a Prime Directive violation? He was abducted by them...
breaking the prime directive
- Thread starter Mr Pointy Ears
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Not sure how that would count as a Prime Directive violation? He was abducted by them...
^ Oh, you would be responsible for a immoral and criminal act. But your guilt in the matter would come after being found to have violated a criminal law.
In the case of Kirk "kidnapping" the Ardanan leader, while he did commit the act, he was (apparently) never found to be guilty, and so he wasn't. But he still committed the act.
If he had been tried, and found (hypothetically) not guilt, he still would have committed the act, but wouldn't have been guilt of it.
The fact that you are not found "legally" guilty of an offense, does not mean you are not guilty of commiting the offense.
yeah, he did kind of jump in to a lot of situations, changing things radically, then take off. Many of the comics followed up on that, with two of them showing disastrous consequences that his actions in "the apple" and "a piece of the action" had.
Some of the TNG-era overly cautious and rigid interpretation of the PD was probably a reaction to Kirk's occasional recklessness.
Archer= no prime directive no nothing...
Kirk= bad boy always broke the rules tho for good reasons and he is cute in doing so.
Picard= weird old man,always by the book tho saved humanity from the Borg and the baku by breaking the Prime directive on rare occasions.
Sisko= Broke the rules on many occasions saved the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion by assassinating a pacifistic senator <.<(shame on him) good cause bad actions.
Janeway= Forced to break and bend the Rules due to catastrophic scenarios in the Delta quadrant also exterminated the Borg in doing so saved the Galaxy and charted new never before seen parts in the universe.
Kirk= bad boy always broke the rules tho for good reasons and he is cute in doing so.
Picard= weird old man,always by the book tho saved humanity from the Borg and the baku by breaking the Prime directive on rare occasions.
Sisko= Broke the rules on many occasions saved the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion by assassinating a pacifistic senator <.<(shame on him) good cause bad actions.
Janeway= Forced to break and bend the Rules due to catastrophic scenarios in the Delta quadrant also exterminated the Borg in doing so saved the Galaxy and charted new never before seen parts in the universe.
Kirk wasn't citing Federation law, as such. He was appealing to M5's own sense of ethics. By that time, Kirk knew that M5 carried Daystrom's engrams, and thus Kirk acted towards M5 like he would towards Daystrom himself. Kirk was trying to make M5 feel guilty and thus shut down.
Kirk wasn't making a legal case - meaning, he wasn't trying to convince M5 that it was going to face a Federation death penalty. Kirk was making M5 feel personally guilty and thus was making use of the "talking a computer to death" trope.
And of course the Prime Directive doesn't even apply to the Providers, who clearly possessed advanced technology and were aware of the existence of life outside their system (as evidenced by repeated abductions of that life).
Well, now that you mention it...
I don't think Vreenak was a pacifist, he just put Romulan interests ahead of the good of the AQ.
Maybe the alternate universe Kirk, but Kirk-Prime often enforced rules and was really didn't become a bad boy until TWOK, when he was retconned from being a straight arrow in the Academy to someone who cheated at the Academy. TNG, DS9, and VOY reinforced the retcon of Kirk as a maverick or frequent rule breaker, when he was more often than not a sticker for rules during TOS itself.
I don't think Sisko actually broke many rules at all. Oh, yes, he did something morally questionable to bring the Romulans into the coalition against the Dominion, but he seemed to otherwise toe the company line.
With regards to Kirk it is possible that some of his reputation in the 24th century is more to do with stories that have grown around him in the inervening years. Just as we sometimes idolise people from the past to a certain degree, the same might also apply to people in the 24th Century about people from the 23rd Century.
They might also be applying 24th Century standards to events that took place in the 23rd Century, when standards were different.
They might also be applying 24th Century standards to events that took place in the 23rd Century, when standards were different.
Sisko was aware that DS9 couldn't be run like a proper Federation starbase, and that he needed folks like Quark and Garak as members of its community. Sisko did use leverage (namely releasing Nog from jail) to convince Quark to stay, but commanding officers can release people from confinement at their discretion (Picard bounced Riker from the brig after the events in TNG's "The Pegasus").
Sisko probably has the least Prime Directive violations out of the four main captains who had to follow the Prime Directive. Primarily because Sisko simply wasn't in very many situations where the Prime Directive applied. His role as the Emissary certainly pushes the limits, but he never took advantage of the Bajorans because of that (not for personal gain, anyway) so therefore there was no actual violation on his part.
The events of In the Pale Moonlight, though morally questionable, have nothing to do with the Prime Directive and therefore there's no reason to discuss them in this thread.
The events of In the Pale Moonlight, though morally questionable, have nothing to do with the Prime Directive and therefore there's no reason to discuss them in this thread.
actually Sisko disobeyed direct orders from admirals more then 3 times during DS9 lol
So? The only one who never disobeyed an admiral was Janeway, and that was because there were no admrials around to giver her orders.
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Personally, I think that was more of Daystrom's ideals rather than Federation Law, since he put in it all his mentalities and what not, especially how prisons are depicted in TOS, apart from dagger of the mind.
Examples, please. Otherwise, it seems as if Sisko remained in good standing with Starfleet throughout the series, with only some reservations about his role among the Bajorans as the Emissary.
I can only think of one example of Sisko disobeying orders, The Die is Cast. You can beef it up to three if you include The Search and Paradise Lost. I don't since:
-The Search was all part of the Dominion simulation.
-In Paradise Lost he was disobeying an admiral who was plotting a coup.
And ultimately Sisko wasn't punished for his actions in "The Die Is Cast" as it wound up producing first-hand intelligence about the Dominion.
ADMIRAL TODDMAN: You may be interested to know I've decided not to file charges against anyone aboard the Defiant.
SISKO: Thank you, sir.
ADMIRAL TODDMAN: But if you pull a stunt like that again, I'll court martial you or I'll promote you...
No orders were actually violated. No one from Starfleet warned the Cardassians of the Klingon invasion.
