Breaking Bad Final Half Season

[davejames]

After the last episode, somehow I don't ever see Walt and Jesse teaming up for anything anymore.

And as for being isolated, I frankly think now would be a great time for Walt and his family to just get the hell out of the country. Maybe Hank would be able to find the evidence he needs, or maybe he wouldn't. But the longer they stick around and antagonize him, the worse they only seem to be making things for themselves.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I wonder how serious talk of a Better Call Saul spin off is. Hopefully he survives.

There is talk of it being a prequel or a seque or 30 or 60 minutes, so it doesn't seem planned.

I think he will live though.

It was strange - there wasn't one mention of a potential spin-off in "Talking Bad", which had Bob Odenkirk on that night. If any time would have been appropriate to bring it up, that would have been it. The show thrives on asking questions about web rumors about BB and that seemed to be a glaring omission, and I was waiting for it to come up the entire time. It almost seems to me that they might have been directed not to bring it up at all by the showrunners.

 

[davejames]

I imagine they probably didn't want to risk it sounding like an official announcement. Or have everyone get their hopes up only to have the idea squashed by the network later on.

 

[gblews]

The nail in the coffin was the fact that Hank's wife paid cash that they aren't supposed to have. That's tangible evidence that Hank could have been involved in drugs.

Not by itself. They would have to come up with considerably more than $177,000. And Hisenberg's dope was still being sold long after the rehab payment. How much cash do Hank and Marie have now? There are unaccounted for millions AFTER the rehab payment.

If there is no cash or electronic funds, and no means or evidence of laundering, then all the financial evidence would consist of $177,000. That is a paltry sum if you are trying to prove that a person has reaped the financial benefits of a drug empire which Walt claims in his confession Hank runs. If that's true, then where's all the "benefits"?

Walt would be telling the DEA that Hank is the drug kingpin while Walt, an "underling" and therefor a lesser earner, needs an obvious means of money laundering while the top dog does not? Should be the other way around.

Hank feels his career is already "in the coffin", the 'last nail" in the coffin is the blow to his integrity caused by Walt's accusations and how the $177,000 would muddy the water even further.

But same thing for Walter, all he has to show is a car wash and a new car, where is the rest the DEA would wonder. So this can apply to Hank thinking he stashed the money away.

The question at hand actually concerned how plausible a case for Hank being a drug kingpin could be made given Hank and Marie's current financial situation. I may have muddied up the water a bit by making the comparison between Hank and Walt.

We all know that Hank doesn't have enough evidence to get a case to trial against Walt, yet. But if Hank can get a real confession out of Jessie or Skylar, Walt's done. There are no smoking guns out there in the form of witnesses or other hard evidence strong enough to get an indictment against Hank.

My point was that even after a thorough investigation the DA would not likely have enough evidence (well, no evidence, actually) to even file charges against Hank. There is evidence out there against Walt, but Hank (or someone) is going to have to find it.

 

[ALF]

I wonder how serious talk of a Better Call Saul spin off is. Hopefully he survives.

There is talk of it being a prequel or a seque or 30 or 60 minutes, so it doesn't seem planned.

I think he will live though.

It was strange - there wasn't one mention of a potential spin-off in "Talking Bad", which had Bob Odenkirk on that night. If any time would have been appropriate to bring it up, that would have been it. The show thrives on asking questions about web rumors about BB and that seemed to be a glaring omission, and I was waiting for it to come up the entire time. It almost seems to me that they might have been directed not to bring it up at all by the showrunners.

Happy birthday, 137th Gebirg! The bonus-web version does elaborate on that. Check it out before the link evaporates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk3jsHTWvpM
Talking Bad is an awesome concept, but the broadcast warms them up and it seems the web versions get the better stuff.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Thanks much - for both things!

 

[davejames]

The question at hand actually concerned how plausible a case for Hank being a drug kingpin could be made given Hank and Marie's current financial situation. I may have muddied up the water a bit by making the comparison between Hank and Walt.

We all know that Hank doesn't have enough evidence to get a case to trial against Walt, yet. But if Hank can get a real confession out of Jessie or Skylar, Walt's done. There are no smoking guns out there in the form of witnesses or other hard evidence strong enough to get an indictment against Hank.

My point was that even after a thorough investigation the DA would not likely have enough evidence (well, no evidence, actually) to even file charges against Hank. There is evidence out there against Walt, but Hank (or someone) is going to have to find it.

Maybe, but the DEA has already learned about Gus Fring, who led a very humble life and didn't appear to own anything more than a chicken franchise and a (very unflashy) station wagon.

If he was able to hide his massive fortune and pass himself off as just a normal guy, then Walt would probably be able to argue the same for Hank. Heck, maybe he could even plant some of his money under Hank's house or in a secret bank account as further "proof" for the cops to find.

 

[stj]

A line from Bryan Cranston about "do your magic" doesn't do the job. That much money is going to immediately convince every police agency with any chance to claim jurisdiction to try to keep Pinkman in custody, not excluding the Arizona game wardens. The nonsense about Jesse being Albuquerque PD's problem is even worse. The DEA is not going to have underlings question keeping a watch on a drug dealer whose millions of dollars they could seize. Instead, the bosses in DC would be on the horn firing Hank's ass if he didn't.

It's not as egregious an error, but Hank should know the confession wouldn't stand up. The story about Hank selling Walt to Fring is absurd on its face, no one sells a golden goose. The murder of Boetticher is impossible to fit into the scenario. The unforgettable spectacle of a giant magnet toppling a truck against the wall of an evidence room to destroy computer evidence shows the confession is nonsense as well. Either Hank would have destroyed the evidence himself (presumably lest Fring be taken alive) or he would have gone ahead and used it.

The DEA itself knew that Hank wasn't druglording it when he was detailed with the agents going after Tuco. Nor was he when the DEA had him under close guard for a prolonged period of time. In general, Hank's pursuit of "Heisenberg" when it even jeopardized his career is completely irreconcilable with "Heisenberg" being under his thumb the whole time. Hank's career is gone when it all comes out, but Hank knows that already.

Sorry, but the writers are losing the plot.

On the subject of Walter's feelings about Walt Jr.: By a coincidence I was rewatching The Flash series. Bryan Cranston played a criminal tycoon who was chasing his estranged wife to kidnap his infant daughter, even though he didn't much like her. Walter White has more feelings for Walt Jr. than Cranston's earlier iteration of a Bad Dad. But possessiveness is still a major motive. Walt bigtime manipulating both Jr. and Jesse in the same episode is not an accident, even if it was unconscious on the writers' part.

The saintliness of Walt and Skylar in taking loving care of Jr. despite the difficulties smacks of a sentimental glorification of characters. Acknowledging mixed feelings about the rigors is not character assassination, but treating the characters as humans. This is doubly true since one thing clearly established about Walt's character is that he never honestly faces himself. The writers have been showing the hero Breaking Bad & Kicking Ass. When they draw the line at showing their hero as an imperfect parent to a handicapped child, they are saving their hero from looking really bad. Lots of people like Walt for winning, but very few will like him for being dissatisfied with a defective son.

 

[davejames]

It's not as egregious an error, but Hank should know the confession wouldn't stand up. The story about Hank selling Walt to Fring is absurd on its face, no one sells a golden goose. The murder of Boetticher is impossible to fit into the scenario. The unforgettable spectacle of a giant magnet toppling a truck against the wall of an evidence room to destroy computer evidence shows the confession is nonsense as well. Either Hank would have destroyed the evidence himself (presumably lest Fring be taken alive) or he would have gone ahead and used it.

The DEA itself knew that Hank wasn't druglording it when he was detailed with the agents going after Tuco. Nor was he when the DEA had him under close guard for a prolonged period of time. In general, Hank's pursuit of "Heisenberg" when it even jeopardized his career is completely irreconcilable with "Heisenberg" being under his thumb the whole time. Hank's career is gone when it all comes out, but Hank knows that already.

Sorry, but the writers are losing the plot.

I agree there are some definite holes in Walt's story, but again, I think his main purpose was just to make things as difficult as possible for Hank with the DEA, and make him have to jump through so many hoops he might decide it's not worth the trouble.

Of course it could also be argued that Hank's entire investigation (and everything else he supposedly did) was simply a smokescreen to cast suspicion away from himself and Walter.

And who knows. Walt's a good enough liar that he could probably come up with an explanation for all those other issues as well, given enough time.

 

[gblews]

The question at hand actually concerned how plausible a case for Hank being a drug kingpin could be made given Hank and Marie's current financial situation. I may have muddied up the water a bit by making the comparison between Hank and Walt.

We all know that Hank doesn't have enough evidence to get a case to trial against Walt, yet. But if Hank can get a real confession out of Jessie or Skylar, Walt's done. There are no smoking guns out there in the form of witnesses or other hard evidence strong enough to get an indictment against Hank.

My point was that even after a thorough investigation the DA would not likely have enough evidence (well, no evidence, actually) to even file charges against Hank. There is evidence out there against Walt, but Hank (or someone) is going to have to find it.

Maybe, but the DEA has already learned about Gus Fring, who led a very humble life and didn't appear to own anything more than a chicken franchise and a (very unflashy) station wagon.

If he was able to hide his massive fortune and pass himself off as just a normal guy, then Walt would probably be able to argue the same for Hank. Heck, maybe he could even plant some of his money under Hank's house or in a secret bank account as further "proof" for the cops to find.

For most of the time he was doing his thing, Gus wasn't under suspicion and there was no investigation. It is easy to hide when no one is looking. But when Gus did come under suspicion, Hank started his investigation and did eventually get the goods on him even with Walt initially trying to sabatage his investigation.

When the feds start actively digging into your life looking for clues, if those clues exist, they will likely be found.

As for your speculation about what Walt might do if he feels he has to solidify the frame-up, I sure would not put it past him. Walt would have to resort to something like this, otherwise there really is no viable evidence that Hank is a "druglord".

The closest thing to evidence there is, is the $177,000 rehab payment. That isn't proof that Hank was drug kingpin, but if Hank continues to keep the DEA in the dark, his motivation for keeping silent and "protecting" Walt might be viewed as (financially) self serving. That's gotta be some kind of crime..

 

[137th Gebirg]

Hank needs to make a decision - and soon - how he wants to move with this. He has one of two options, as I see it:
1. Keep quiet and/or disappear. If he does this and get caught, he will go to jail for complicity in multiple crimes. If he doesn't get caught and stays off the radar, he should be fine, but I doubt his disappearance won't go unpursued
2. Call it in RIGHT NOW, throw himself at the mercy of DEA admin and hope for a demotion at best, dismissal at worst. I agree with his wife (in this case). He needs to get in front of this before it goes sideways (and it will, meta-thinking, based on how this show is written). Either way, his career is over and it will be messy but, in this case, I think it's best to engage in preemptive spin control to mitigate maximum self-damage.

He's in far too deep at this point and waited too long and kept too many people out of the loop to really do anything else meaningful in this investigation.

 

[davejames]

I wouldn't put it beyond these writer's to have Hank end up with his life and career in complete ruins at the end, but personally I'm hoping he DOES get the upper hand on Walt, that he finds the evidence he needs, and that the DEA takes one look at this "confession" and goes "yeah right, not buying it."

I really hope it doesn't come down at the end to a disgraced and bitter Hank going off on some Death Wish-style hunt for Walt.

Hopefully the writers have something a bit more original in mind than that.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Based on what they've done these past 5 seasons, I think we can all safely conclude that the resolution will be anything but contrived and unoriginal.

 

[Mojochi]

Hank will not get Walt... Jesse will. I'll shit myself if I'm wrong about that

 

[3chordboy]

Hank will not get Walt... Jesse will. I'll shit myself if I'm wrong about that

in my mind i have this image of Walt killing both Hank and Jesse so he "wins" but he has lost everything; home, family, life, so is a completely hollow victory. seems like the kind of dark route the writers would take with this show...let the villain win.

 

[InklingStar]

Hank will not get Walt... Jesse will. I'll shit myself if I'm wrong about that

Pics or it did not happen.

 

[Mojochi]

lol, well maybe I won't, but I'll feel like I did

Hank will not get Walt... Jesse will. I'll shit myself if I'm wrong about that

in my mind i have this image of Walt killing both Hank and Jesse so he "wins" but he has lost everything; home, family, life, so is a completely hollow victory. seems like the kind of dark route the writers would take with this show...let the villain win.

There is that possibility, but I can't think of anything more horrible than Jesse spending all this time breaking good only to end up losing out or dead

 

[ALF]

It would be very ironic if Jesse is the last man standing, since he was to be killed off so early in the series.

Here's the thing about Hank that's very clear - he's ready to explode. Since he knows his future is fucked, he will likely figure out how to cause the most damage to Walt and perhaps the least to the rest of his family. But he's liable to do anything. My guess is he'll let his partner in on what happened and do a kamakaze of sorts all over Walt, or at least try to. I hope they don't kill Hank off too soon! The level of anger that he feels towards Hank... the complexity of the deception, it's unlike anything I've ever been exposed to in fiction. It's great.

BTW, I'm guessing that Jesse don't light the house on fire because Flynn is home. I would love to see an interaction between them. I'm guessing they've never met. One of my favorite scene of the whole series is Walt inviting Jesse to dinner and trying to make small talk with Skyler. Comedy gold amid a very intense and dark series.

 

[FPAlpha]

The house can't burn down or even slightly up because we've already seen the state of it in the flash forwards. It's derelict, cleaned out and vandalized buti didn't see any prominent burn marks.

I just caught up today with the show and i'm simply speechless.. it's been said already here in this thread but the way the show makes you repeatedly root for Walt to come through in all his endeavours is just brilliant.

Up until Jane's death it was also easy to do so.. he only killed off scum (especially those two drug dealers who killed the little kid they trained to be their dealer) but even after it you still had moments of "Go Walt! Show them evil guys!" but deep down you knew it was wrong.

I honestly can't imagine how this can end.. it will be very violent (how can it not be with an ex-chemistry teacher lugging around an M60 machine gun in his trunk) but given the vibe of the show i'm pretty sure i'll be speechless again.

About Hank.. i think he's close to losing it. He knows his job is done any way he slices it. When it comes out that Walter White is Heisenberg (and it will for sure as evidenced by the flash forward) his career will be over much like his former boss who had even less connections to Gustavo Frings. However it might be that Hank simply snaps.. he's a very emotional guy prone to wild mood swings and that's not good if you're vindictive, armed and out for revenge. I don't see this ending well for Hank at all.

 

[stj]

They ended the episode with a threat we already know will not be carried out. There's a technical term for this: Anti-climax.

By the way, on the issue of contrivances, the chances that no one found out about the money being given away are zero. Jesse should have had any number of people offering him matches in hopes he tips really, really well.

Another by the way, Lydia is a Walter White too. Why is she treated differently?

Another by the way, Walter is not even tempted to stray sexually, not even after Skylar cheats. Jesse has been a monogamous, caring partner with only two women. The writers have been very careful not to taint the antihero and the antivillain with any distasteful sexual sins, as opposed to cool violence.