Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

[hbquikcomjamesl]

. . .The standard answer is Avatar Book One & Two, . . .

Huh? Not Spock's World? Not The Wounded Sky? Not some Greg Cox or Vonda McIntyre opus?

I don't even remember what Avatar was about. Probably a direct consequence of having read every ST novel and short story that has appeared in officially-licensed printed form (as well as at least one that hasn't). They tend to run together after a while. And yet, a few, like most Diane Duane, most Greg Cox, and both of John Ford's pieces (just to name a few) stand out. And a few, like The Starless World, World Without End, the ever-popular Devil World, and anything Marshak & Culbreath wrote (for Bantam or Pocket) stand out for how bad they are.

 

[Greg Cox]

Huh? Not Spock's World? Not The Wounded Sky? Not some Greg Cox or Vonda McIntyre opus?

I don't even remember what Avatar was about. Probably a direct consequence of having read every ST novel and short story that has appeared in officially-licensed printed form (as well as at least one that hasn't). They tend to run together after a while. And yet, a few, like most Diane Duane, most Greg Cox, and both of John Ford's pieces (just to name a few) stand out. And a few, like The Starless World, World Without End, the ever-popular Devil World, and anything Marshak & Culbreath wrote (for Bantam or Pocket) stand out for how bad they are.

Thanks. I admit I'm flattered to be lumped in with Vonda, who was actually one of my old writing instructors, way back in 1984, along with such Trek luminaries as Norman Spinrad and David Hartwell.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Just weighing in on 'Ship of the Line'- it's awful. Really, really bad. It gets very basic facts about Star Trek badly wrong (quick: What happened first, Picard's assimilation or his torture at the hands of Gul Madred? If you got this right, you did more fact-checking than Carey did). The author of that work has no right to criticize the authors of Broken Bow.

Ship of the Line reads like an unfinished, unedited book. I don't know where the blame lies, if Carey ran out of time or if John Ordover didn't have the time to do an edit on the manuscript. It was probably a joint failure. It needed a rewrite, and it needed an editorial hammer.

 

[Jinn]

Huh? Not Spock's World? Not The Wounded Sky? Not some Greg Cox or Vonda McIntyre opus?

I don't even remember what Avatar was about. Probably a direct consequence of having read every ST novel and short story that has appeared in officially-licensed printed form (as well as at least one that hasn't). They tend to run together after a while. And yet, a few, like most Diane Duane, most Greg Cox, and both of John Ford's pieces (just to name a few) stand out. And a few, like The Starless World, World Without End, the ever-popular Devil World, and anything Marshak & Culbreath wrote (for Bantam or Pocket) stand out for how bad they are.

I'd presume because it is the (sort of) start of the DS9 relaunch.

 

[zarkon]

I'm not sure why a new reader of trek would want to straight into the ds9 relaunch. Much of it wasn't even very good.

 

[Jinn]

I'm not sure why a new reader of trek would want to straight into the ds9 relaunch. Much of it wasn't even very good.

The newer stuff, but the original relaunch novels up to Warpath are widely regarded as really good, aren't they?

Though the less episodic format of the series may be off putting to people used to... Well pretty much all of Trek, save for Enterprise Season 3 and the Dominion War arc in DS9.

 

[Stevil2001]

The newer stuff, but the original relaunch novels up to Warpath are widely regarded as really good, aren't they?

Though the less episodic format of the series may be off putting to people used to... Well pretty much all of Trek, save for Enterprise Season 3 and the Dominion War arc in DS9.

It's been a long time since I read them, but I loved and treasured Avatar when it came out, and I remember Abyss, Twilight, This Gray Spirit, The Left Hand of Destiny, Rising Son, and The Never-Ending Sacrifice as all being excellent, and enjoyed most of the others up through Unity. I found most of the Worlds stories to be so-so, and wasn't a big fan of Warpath and the books that followed. But that's a much better hit rate than most Star Trek books.

 

[Kor]

I love snarky meta-commentary.

I don't think I ever got around to reading any of Diane Carey's non-TOS Trek stuff. My respect for her just grew immensely after reading this thread.

Kor

 

[DS9forever]

DS9 2000 - 2009 is still the benchmark of quality Star Trek for me.

 

[Idran]

I love snarky meta-commentary.

I don't think I ever got around to reading any of Diane Carey's non-TOS Trek stuff. My respect for her just grew immensely after reading this thread.

It's not snarky or commentary in her Broken Bow novelization, though; it's blunt insults with no real wit. There's no cleverness in how she approached any of her criticisms of the episode, and no insight into the shortcomings of the pilot. None of it rises above the level of just outright saying "this is horrible" over and over again. It's all either attacks or nitpicking. And it's not even integrated well into the work, it's basically grafted onto the pilot so blatantly you can almost see the seams.

 

[flandry84]

The thing I remember most from Ship of the line was that forced chumminess of the Bozeman's bridge crew.It seemed to me at the time that Carey was indulging in a covert handwave to some of her sailing buddies.
And all the sailing terminology...Geez,we get it..she liked sailing.

 

[Desert Kris]

The newer stuff, but the original relaunch novels up to Warpath are widely regarded as really good, aren't they?

Though the less episodic format of the series may be off putting to people used to... Well pretty much all of Trek, save for Enterprise Season 3 and the Dominion War arc in DS9.

I've gravitated towards older novels, that are more stand alone, with a small amount of gradual continuity networking, mainly because I'm a slow reader. I'm just not going to be able to catch up on and appreciate the continuity that is developing in Trek lit right now. Plus, I'm a bit more of an old school fan, and even though I grew up with TNG, I had a solid foundational grounding with TOS before TNG came along. So TOS books are what I'm looking at mainly, and interestingly enough it's been the books of Diane Duane, John Ford and Vonda McIntyre that I've started out with, for reading Trek more regularly.

 

[Phoenix219]

I was reading Trek novels in the late 80s/early 90s when i was in elementary and middle school, and i'm quite sure I would appreciate a lot of them a LOT more now then I ever did then. I definitely remember reading Foster/Blish adaptations and Best of Trek books on the bus in elementary school. As it is, I remember very, very little.... vague memories of the Trek IV novelization, one about some brain eating alien vultures or some sort that plucked brains right of heads (NO idea what book that may have been), and the Trelane/Q book.... I remember having a lot of books in my hands, but I'll be damned if I can remember any real details lol.

 

[Christopher]

one about some brain eating alien vultures or some sort that plucked brains right of heads (NO idea what book that may have been)

Dreams of the Raven by Carmen Carter.

 

[JD]

I'd presume because it is the (sort of) start of the DS9 relaunch.

Not only the DS9 relaunch, it was one of the first big stories in the overall modern novelverse.

I'm not sure why a new reader of trek would want to straight into the ds9 relaunch. Much of it wasn't even very good.

I'd have to completely disagree, the entire line of novel from Avatar - Warpath, is one of favorite Trek eras, and they were IMO some of the most consistently awesome Trek books ever. While it did get a bit hit or miss after that, most of the DS9 books since then have at least been good.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But what do I know, I loved Red Sector.

I never understood the hate for it. It was the new book I'd just read and enjoyed when I found the online Trek BBSs and accidentally wandered into a sea of anti-Carey sentiment.

 

[Desert Kris]

I was reading Trek novels in the late 80s/early 90s when i was in elementary and middle school, and i'm quite sure I would appreciate a lot of them a LOT more now then I ever did then. I definitely remember reading Foster/Blish adaptations and Best of Trek books on the bus in elementary school. As it is, I remember very, very little.... vague memories of the Trek IV novelization, one about some brain eating alien vultures or some sort that plucked brains right of heads (NO idea what book that may have been), and the Trelane/Q book.... I remember having a lot of books in my hands, but I'll be damned if I can remember any real details lol.

I'm willing to bet that revisting some of them will be a very different experience. For some reason, when I was much younger, I couldn't get the hang of Vonda McIntyre's prose. I don't think I would have understood and appreciated the depths and nuances of John Ford's The Final Reflection if I had tried to read it at a younger age; ever since I read it a year or so ago, I keeping picking that one up and skimming it...I very much look forward to revisiting it properly.

To tied it back in to the original topic a little, I've read Diane Carey's Final Frontier several times, and it's a different experience every time. When I was much younger, it was a dauntingly large book. On another occasion, it connected solidly with me as a fine maiden voyage for the original Enterprise. On another occasion I read it after having read Best Destiny, and with an understanding of the controversial political opinion that is behind the story's plot. I still think it's a fun adventure story, and a fascinating look at two characters (George Kirk and Robert April) who serve as forerunners of what Captain James Kirk will be in a single person (yet had his own relationship with two others in a similar symbiosis).

Christopher has already been able to pinpoint the book about the brain eating alien vultures as Dreams of the Raven which I thought was an average yet solidly entertaining novel...featuring my favorite cover art for a ST book.

 

[Saul]

It seems such a shame to me if this is why there were no more Diane Carey Star Trek novels. I love her stuff with Captain April.

 

[Leto_II]

^ At least we're getting something of a continuation of her April-era stuff with the TOS Legacies trilogy. While I've never been all that fond of Carey's political moralizing, her vision of the early, original NCC-1701 crew was always an interesting one.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ At least we're getting something of a continuation of her April-era stuff with the TOS Legacies trilogy. While I've never been all that fond of Carey's political moralizing, her vision of the early, original NCC-1701 crew was always an interesting one.

Yep, we lifted April's crew pretty much directly from Carey's books, aside from inventing some new crew members to serve the needs of our own plot.