Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
Quit being two-faced about it. You Bragaites claim that Seven of Nine wasn't a just sex character. And then you claim that she was kind of, but only because UPN made Braga make her one. This is just an example of why she was. Use basic logic here people. If it smells like a duck.....
I have no problem with a Sex Character. Far from it. My problem was with how it was presented. It was presented in such a stupid, immature manner I couldn't help but be insulted. I agree with Ron Moore when he said that the character is insulting to the audience. She's walking around pretty much naked and none of the other characters seem to notice. Either make her a full time femmebot - like Number 6 - or make her a serious character and put her in a Starfleet uniform. Don't halfass it and try to have it both ways. Which is exactly what they did with her.
exodus said:
*GASP* A WOMANS BAREBACK ON TV!!!!
Next thing you know, they'll actually have to explain how Tom got Be'Lanna pregnant!
Quit being two-faced about it. You Bragaites claim that Seven of Nine wasn't a just sex character. And then you claim that she was kind of, but only because UPN made Braga make her one. This is just an example of why she was. Use basic logic here people. If it smells like a duck.....
I have no problem with a Sex Character. Far from it. My problem was with how it was presented. It was presented in such a stupid, immature manner I couldn't help but be insulted. I agree with Ron Moore when he said that the character is insulting to the audience. She's walking around pretty much naked and none of the other characters seem to notice. Either make her a full time femmebot - like Number 6 - or make her a serious character and put her in a Starfleet uniform. Don't halfass it and try to have it both ways. Which is exactly what they did with her.
Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
Nobody claimed it was "kind of" anything, they gave you examples of why Seven was nude from the eps. you used and used them in the context in with they were shown.
If you don't have issue with a sexual character whether she is or isn't, why are you still continuing to complain?
How is anyone being two-faced by sticking by their stance that they don't have an issue with sexuality? Why do you not have issue with Troi's camel toe but take one up with Seven for wearing a bodysuit?
Nobody claimed it was "kind of" anything, they gave you examples of why Seven was nude from the eps. you used and used them in the context in with they were shown.
If you don't have issue with a sexual character whether she is or isn't, why are you still continuing to complain?
Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
As I've said many times, Braga isn't a bad idea man; with a writing partner or a good script editor, he's been responsible for some very good stories as well as some very bad ones. Had the internal craft of the scripts in ENT lived up to the ideas behind them, continuity wouldn't have been such a big issue - important, but as it was, it was about the only thing left to talk about, because the scripts themselves were amateurish, at best.
Brannon (and Berman) get as much grief as they deserve, just maybe not for the right reasons. Continuity was the least of their problems; despite a Hugo for "excellence" (keep in mind that the Hugos have become largely a popularity contest by the fans, rather than an acknowledgment by peers of actual skill and talent), ENT was plagued by incoherent writing, and neither Berman nor Braga had the ability or the humility to realize that what they had written was sorely in need of a real script editor to clean it up. They filmed what they wrote, rewrote others' scripts to fit their perceptions, and ENT (and Star Trek) suffered as a result.
As I've said many times, Braga isn't a bad idea man; with a writing partner or a good script editor, he's been responsible for some very good stories as well as some very bad ones. Had the internal craft of the scripts in ENT lived up to the ideas behind them, continuity wouldn't have been such a big issue - important, but as it was, it was about the only thing left to talk about, because the scripts themselves were amateurish, at best.
Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
Trip Tucker had an episode he was entirely in his underwear, is he just a sex character as well?
Thrall said:
exodus said:
*GASP* A WOMANS BAREBACK ON TV!!!!
Next thing you know, they'll actually have to explain how Tom got Be'Lanna pregnant!
Quit being two-faced about it. You Bragaites claim that Seven of Nine wasn't a just sex character. And then you claim that she was kind of, but only because UPN made Braga make her one. This is just an example of why she was. Use basic logic here people. If it smells like a duck.....
Trip Tucker had an episode he was entirely in his underwear, is he just a sex character as well?
Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
That's not the issue and you know it. So quit trying to distract from it. This is about Braga's bad writing. It's not fans dislike of sexuality. It's fans dislike of sexism. Troi's cleavage and TOS miniskirts were a sign of sexual empowerment. Seven and T'Pols bodysuits were a sign of sexism. Also, Troi only spent a few seasons in that suit. Half the time she was in a Starfleet uniform. And they never hyped her cleavage as the sole reason to watch the show. From the beginning of Seven to the end of the show the advertising department might as well have said in their adds, "Watch Star Trek: Voyager. We've got boobs."
The context was that they wanted Seven naked in an episode and Q2 was just the excuse they needed. Again, it shows that Braga is as subtle as a slegdehammer. The sexuality doesn't even really matter to me. It just shows the weak writing that was prevalent there. The sexuality is just an example.
Actually this started when you claimed that Roddenberry was a schovenist and that Trek Fans are afraid of sex as a way to distract from Braga's short comings as a writer. Next you'll claim I hate Janeway because I hate women. Or, better yet, I hate "Distant Origins" because I'm a creationist. I dislike both, but not for those reasons. I dislike them because Braga wouldn't know subtle if it snuck up behind him and Vulcan nerve pinched him.
That's not the issue and you know it. So quit trying to distract from it. This is about Braga's bad writing. It's not fans dislike of sexuality. It's fans dislike of sexism. Troi's cleavage and TOS miniskirts were a sign of sexual empowerment. Seven and T'Pols bodysuits were a sign of sexism. Also, Troi only spent a few seasons in that suit. Half the time she was in a Starfleet uniform. And they never hyped her cleavage as the sole reason to watch the show. From the beginning of Seven to the end of the show the advertising department might as well have said in their adds, "Watch Star Trek: Voyager. We've got boobs."
The context was that they wanted Seven naked in an episode and Q2 was just the excuse they needed. Again, it shows that Braga is as subtle as a slegdehammer. The sexuality doesn't even really matter to me. It just shows the weak writing that was prevalent there. The sexuality is just an example.
Actually this started when you claimed that Roddenberry was a schovenist and that Trek Fans are afraid of sex as a way to distract from Braga's short comings as a writer. Next you'll claim I hate Janeway because I hate women. Or, better yet, I hate "Distant Origins" because I'm a creationist. I dislike both, but not for those reasons. I dislike them because Braga wouldn't know subtle if it snuck up behind him and Vulcan nerve pinched him.
Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
You must not have watched a lot of TNG - Barring Encounter At Farpoint Troi was in some sort of Cat Suit from Season 1 through the Season 6 episode Chain of Command I where Captain Jellico orders her to start wearing a standard Starfleet uniform; which she then does for the remander of Seasons 6 and 7.
Braga does deserve a lot of the flak he gets, make NO mistake - I think the guy should have been given his walking papers at the end of TNG's run; HOWEVER, he was not the instigator of female Cat Suits in 'modern' Star Trek - that honor belogs to GR himself; and STARTED with Troi.
Don't sit here and try to say "Troi's Cat Suit was empowering; while all the other Cat Suits shown were demeaning.
You must not have watched a lot of TNG - Barring Encounter At Farpoint Troi was in some sort of Cat Suit from Season 1 through the Season 6 episode Chain of Command I where Captain Jellico orders her to start wearing a standard Starfleet uniform; which she then does for the remander of Seasons 6 and 7.
Braga does deserve a lot of the flak he gets, make NO mistake - I think the guy should have been given his walking papers at the end of TNG's run; HOWEVER, he was not the instigator of female Cat Suits in 'modern' Star Trek - that honor belogs to GR himself; and STARTED with Troi.
Don't sit here and try to say "Troi's Cat Suit was empowering; while all the other Cat Suits shown were demeaning.
Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..
I think dismissing him at the end of TNG is a bit harsh, get rid of Jeri Taylor at the end of TNG, and have someone more like Piller to stay in charge of VOY and keep Braga in line. Then dismiss him maybe at the end of VOY.
I think dismissing him at the end of TNG is a bit harsh, get rid of Jeri Taylor at the end of TNG, and have someone more like Piller to stay in charge of VOY and keep Braga in line. Then dismiss him maybe at the end of VOY.
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