Boxing legend Muhammad Ali has died

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Ah, I miss George Carlin, too.

Thanks for those comments Diogenes. I didn't know about the draft issue and going to trial over his beliefs.

You're welcome. That was the thing that really made him a hero to most of my generation.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

 

[MANT!]

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[publiusr]

A warning to the dead--a warrior is about to arrive,
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_death_ritual

 

[Bluewhale]

^^ Ah, I miss George Carlin, too.


You're welcome. That was the thing that really made him a hero to most of my generation.

I just watched Mant's clip by Billy Crystal summing up Ali's successful and sometimes not successful career. I guessed I missed a lot of what happened because I wasn't born until after the Viet War. It is good to be able to follow these posts to find out more about the legend. It's a shame that we find out more about a person when they die - it would have been so good to find out the things that my Grandmother did in her younger years. I wanted to hear more about her early life but didn't realise what exciting things she had done, despite dementia. I heard about it all the day she died last year, after nearly a century of life. I can't imagine the changes she saw throughout her life.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Same here. It wasn't until after my Grandmother died and we went through her stuff that we discovered she had been quite the Flapper. Go, Nana!

 

[ichab]

He was a person who made money by punching others. Why glorify that? I don't get the obsession with "sports" that have people beating the shit out of each other. Don't get me wrong, it's sad that a human being has died, but I really don't get the glorification of someone who is paid to beat up someone else.

Learn your history. He wasn't just a boxer or another "celebrity." He was someone who gave up the most prestigous title in all of professional sports along with his peak years to fight against a system that he knew was wrong. This along with his long battle against parkinsons made him a beloved figure throughout the world. He deserves every bit of recognition that has come his way and then some.

 

[Sparky]

I'm sure there are some who don't get why we glorify people for playing make-believe astronauts on cardboard sets. If you just don't get sports maybe stay out of discussions like this. Clearly you don't understand boxing or Ali's impact on the sport and outside of it, so why even say anything?

I get sports, I just don't get the "hero" status of any sport. It's just a job, mindless entertainment I don't glorify people who have jobs acting on cardboard sets either, so that point is moot. Sports icons, actors, talk show hosts you name it, none of them are any more important than the homeless guy on the street, they just have jobs that expose them to a lot of people. Maybe I don't get boxing, that I will agree with. I don't get any "sport" where the only point is to pummel the other person so badly they end up knocked out or unable to fight. Like I said in my previous post, it's sad that a human being died...but I just don't get the adulation.

 

[Spot261]

Maybe I don't get boxing, that I will agree with. I don't get any "sport" where the only point is to pummel the other person so badly they end up knocked out or unable to fight.

Probably not the place for a sports debate, but given the fact that this thread is in honour of a boxer I feel I should point out that is a very narrow view of what boxing is about and the contribution made by people like Ali.

Combat sports represent a socially acceptable outlet for aggression and dominance behaviour that really isn't a positive thing left unchecked. Young males in particular are biologically programmed to compete for their place in the pecking order and physical violence is a major part of that.

Sporting heroes such as Muhammad Ali act as an example to young people as to how to channel those instincts and behaviours in a way that is controlled, regulated and generally pretty safe without impacting on the lives and well being of others around them. They also demonstrate the sort of aspirational qualities that promote hard work, dedication, healthy living and self improvement that keeps kids off the streets and prepares them for being productive members of society. There's a reason prison gyms typically have mitts, bags and often as not rings.

I get the whole "adulation" point you raise and as you'll see from my posts elsewhere completely agree with you, absolutely everyone's worth is equal and no one should be on a pedestal at the expense of others. On the other hand sports such as boxing have a definite role within society and rely on their most visible adherents to inspire young people to strive for something better.

No "hero" is fundamentally better than any other human being but that does not detract from value of positive role models for young people, especially in a world with so much hatred, casual violence (of the real sort - not the sporting variety) and hatred.

 

[Hippocrates Noah]

I get sports, I just don't get the "hero" status of any sport. It's just a job, mindless entertainment I don't glorify people who have jobs acting on cardboard sets either, so that point is moot. Sports icons, actors, talk show hosts you name it, none of them are any more important than the homeless guy on the street, they just have jobs that expose them to a lot of people. Maybe I don't get boxing, that I will agree with. I don't get any "sport" where the only point is to pummel the other person so badly they end up knocked out or unable to fight. Like I said in my previous post, it's sad that a human being died...but I just don't get the adulation.

Seeing as how you've been a member here for about 15 years I think it's safe to assume that Star Trek isn't just "some TV show" to you, or any of us registered here really. My point was that you're an active member of a fanbase that is built on conventions and people traveling from all over just to meet and get an autograph from one of these actors. Many aren't even very good actors/actresses, but I get why people would enjoy meeting the stars of a show that makes them happy. Yet you're incredulous as to why anybody would care about professional athletes who perform at the highest levels. It's mindless entertainment in you opinion but so is Star Trek to a lot of people. You may not personally glorify any of the cast (though I'm willing to bet you'd be pretty psyched to meet Shatner or Stewart, come on admit it lol), but it shouldn't be a strange new concept to you that people would enjoy meeting a celebrity (be it an actor, musician or athlete) and would be sad at their passing. Especially with somebody like Ali who was influential far beyond the boxing ring. He did a lot more than just punch people in the face, which is a pretty simplistic view on boxing anyway.

 

[Kor]

Thanks for those comments Diogenes. I didn't know about the draft issue and going to trial over his beliefs. That adds to my comments about his illness. I know many people have turned to boxing instead of violence in the public arena. We know little about young people's early lives, but if boxing channels their violence in an arena that gives them confidence and turns them away from street violence good luck to them and the people who give their time to coach. I don't like boxing myself but don't feel the need to critisize those who do.

When I was in some honors classes in middle school, we had a troubled kid in our class who was very intelligent (an excellent chess player, too) but had an anger problem and violent tendencies. As an adult, he became a pro MMA fighter and apparently a decent and friendly fellow in everyday life. While I don't agree with engaging in violence for a living (or even as a hobby), I think that expressing such tendencies in a contained, consensual setting like that is way better than taking out one's aggressions on the street somewhere or at home and hurting family members or innocent bystanders such as myself in everyday life.

And to get back on topic, condolences to Ali's family. He did a lot of memorable things and took a stand for what he believed in.

Kor

 

[ichab]

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