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box office

If the old 2.5 times budget is applicable, the number would be $812.5 million to be profitable.
That formula has nothing to do with anything. Never really did. It's just a rule of thumb promulgated in the press that dates back at least to the 1970s, and of course nothing has changed in film financing or marketing since that time. And studio accounting is straightforward simple, right?

All those production partners that show up in the credits of a movie - ever wonder why so many folks want to invest in a business with the uncertain outcomes of the film industry? It's not the glamour of it all.

A very few people at Warners will know how much profit they've made on this movie.
 

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That formula has nothing to do with anything.

I agree. It is just the one I've seen thrown around since the beginning of me being on the internet.

Besides, if it hits $812.5 million then we'll all know we're comfortably in sequel territory. ;)
 
That formula has nothing to do with anything. Never really did. It's just a rule of thumb promulgated in the press that dates back at least to the 1970s,
To be honest, we don't know for sure if that rule still applies. But it does apply online, and I think studios need to be more transparent about the money they make in theaters and streaming.
 
To be honest, we don't know for sure if that rule still applies. But it does apply online, and I think studios need to be more transparent about the money they make in theaters and streaming.
What does that mean, it "applies online?" All that matters is what applies in Hollywood boardrooms.
 
I agree. It is just the one I've seen thrown around since the beginning of me being on the internet.
But now it's become inconvenient.
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By the simplistic rule of thumb people try to apply in these online arguments, MoS has never made back its costs:

Screenshot_2025-07-10_114652.jpgScreenshot_2025-07-10_114632.jpg

It's not true. We know it's not true; one of the first and simplest errors made in this naive calculation is assuming no substantial revenue comes in the front door prior to a movie's opening or additional to its ticket sales.

Look it up. Read. Stop parroting old myths.
 
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By the simplistic rule of thumb people try to apply in these online arguments, MoS has never made back its costs:
Does anyone claim this? I really wonder.

It's not true. We know it's not true; one of the first and simplest errors made in this naive calculation is that no substantial revenue come in the front door prior to a movie's opening or additional to its ticket sales.
Is there a source for information on what kind of "additional revenue" a movie generates, either before or outside of ticket sales? I know DVD, Blu-ray, and VOD sales also generate a lot of money. But when it comes to making a sequel, Hollywood companies are still looking at the box office.
 
By the simplistic rule of thumb people try to apply in these online arguments, MoS has never made back its costs:

View attachment 47590View attachment 47591

It's not true. We know it's not true; one of the first and simplest errors made in this naive calculation is that no substantial revenue come in the front door prior to a movie's opening or additional to its ticket sales.

Look it up. Read. Stop parroting old myths.

I'm sure if you ask Hollywood, most of these movies don't make money. Wasn't there a story about that the guy who played Chewbacca still hadn't been paid his profit sharing in Star Wars, twenty years after it was made because it hadn't broke even yet?

I know there's another story that floats around about one of the early Harry Potter movies still hadn't made a profit.
 
I'm sure if you ask Hollywood, most of these movies don't make money. Wasn't there a story about that the guy who played Chewbacca still hadn't been paid his profit sharing in Star Wars, twenty years after it was made because it hadn't broke even yet?
I believe that was David Prowse talking about not getting paid residuals.
 

So… what if I told you that the Harry Potter franchise was actually a financial flop?

Well you’d probably call me a liar or, at least, point out how ridiculously wrong I am because, let’s face it, that claim is obviously ridiculous.

Let’s take a look at the fifth film alone (so as not to skew our results with Warner Bros.’s hugest success). Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (2007) reportedly cost $150 million to make and that investment proved to be sound because the film pulled in almost $940 million at the box office. That is obviously a hit by anyone’s standards, but anyone with knowledge of the behind-the-scenes costs of films knows that Warner didn’t simply laugh all the way to the bank with $790 million in profit. After all, you have advertising and publicity dollars, prints, dubbing into other languages, shipping of prints, subtitles, distribution fees and…

Wait just a cotton pickin’ second here. “Distribution Fees”? But Warner Bros. distributed the film. Who the hell are they paying that to?
 
Is there a source for information on what kind of "additional revenue" a movie generates, either before or outside of ticket sales?
There are sources - pay continual attention to business trends and press in general as well as in the trades. You won't find full breakdowns for any given movie anywhere, but you'll find out how various aspects of it work in movies and other media in general.

State and local tax credits are generally folded into that public budget number. Promotional support from partners - what brands pay to use the IP in their marketing, or for exposure in the film, and so forth - are not, and will run to hundreds of millions of value for a major tentpole release.. See: A Minecraft Movie for a recent example. Similar is true for Superman.

Doesn't hurt to look at whose pockets a lot of those net budget outlays go into, either. Warner owns a lot of companies, as do Paramount, Disney, etc. Out of one pocket into another.

Of course, the tax man would love for studios to publish full and honest public accounting for how much money they really make and what their final costs are on a movie. They would really, really like that. ;)
 
Wait just a cotton pickin’ second here. “Distribution Fees”? But Warner Bros. distributed the film. Who the hell are they paying that to?
Warner doesn't distribute its own films in every country. For example, it did in our country. It had a distribution department that existed since 1989. It closed a few years ago and gave it to a local distribution company called TME Films. It has been distributing Warner films ever since.
 
This sounds a bit optimistic to me. I'm just guessing, but I'd think that between 100 and 120 is realistic, and the lower end of that range more likely.

But, here's Boxofficetheory:

Weekend Forecast
(table below is best viewed in desktop format)

This weekend’s top 10 films are tracking to earn 77 percent above the same weekend in 2024 ($117.8 million), led by Despicable Me 4‘s $43.6 million sophomore frame, and 82 percent above the same weekend in 2019 ($114.1 million), led by Spider-Man: Far from Home‘s $45.4 million second weekend.

FilmDistributor3-Day (Fri-Sun) Weekend Forecast3-Day Change from Last WeekendProjected Domestic Total through Sunday, July 13Expected Location Count (as of Wed)
Superman (2025)Warner Bros.$135,350,000NEW$135,350,0004,135
Prime Early Access + Thu$23,900,000
Fri$37,170,000
Sat$39,720,000
Sun$34,560,000
We’ve talked quite a bit in recent weeks about this weekend’s tentpole release, and while some clarity has started to present itself, there’s still slight debate around the internet and the industry as a whole about what the rebooted DC Studios (re)launch film will achieve in its domestic debut.

Admittedly, our own models last month were on the bullish end (more on that below) with some internal experimentation involved — models that we have been and continue to revise going forward after having overshot several June releases in long lead outlooks. On the flip side, other sources had been suggestive of an opening potentially under $100 million.

Typically, our goal is to find a reasonable floor and midpoint and work upward in late-stage tracking if enough data and observation points justify it. Recently, we’ve had to employ the opposite strategy more often than usual. Barring any Minecraft– or Inside Out 2-like explosion of non-ordinary walk-up sales for Superman over the next few days, this looks to be a similar case of that.

With that prologue out of the way, here’s where the science and the art of things stand for Superman‘s opening box office trajectory as of Thursday.

Superman (2025)
BOT Domestic Weekend Forecast Range: $125 — 150 million (daily pinpoints in the chart below)
Traditional Industry Tracking: ~$100 million+

Key Tracking Factors & Rationale:

  • Superman preview pre-sales generally followed an expected path in our T-minus 6-to-2-weeks-before-opening projections. That crowded summer corridor saw it competing with the likes of Jurassic World Rebirth, F1: The Movie, The Fantastic Four: First Steps, and other mid-to-late June players. The biggest unknown in our models (walk-up business and word-of-mouth-driven pre-sales after previews) won’t be fully known until opening weekend has started.
    • That said, while acceleration has been very respectable in the days since the Fourth of July holiday frame ended and focused shifted toward this release, it has not yet reached levels necessary to say that pre-sales as a singular metric by themselves support the kind of $154 million-plus opening performance we and other sources measured as achievable from before-ticket-on-sale windows last month.
    • Thursday currently looks to be on pace for roughly $20 million from domestic previews, potentially upward of $22 million or more if walk-up business reaches beyond the fan audience and into more casual and family moviegoers.
    • This follows Tuesday’s Prime Early Access screenings which drew just under $3 million per multiple sources and are expected to be included in the studio’s official weekend reporting.
    • Post-Thursday outlooks are where things get a little intriguing, especially with regard to daily shares. In our exhibitor samples, Superman has consistently paced about 5 to 8 percent behind comparable titles such as Thunderbolts*, Deadpool & Wolverine, The Flash and Thor: Love and Thunder in terms of how much Thursday’s pre-sales account for the weekend against the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday daily layout as a whole.
      • In other words, Superman‘s pre-sales are slightly less front-loaded to Thursday previews than those films were at the same point before release. Partly a result of Tuesday’s siphoning of demand via the Prime Early Access shows, this is where word-of-mouth, review, and walk-up expected impact become the final remaining variables to extrapolate.
  • Demographically, Supermanhas been driven largely by an adult male audience up to this point, though we have been aiming to account for a potentially late-blooming factor: family and kid appeal, especially those outside major metro and coastal areas where DC films tend to perform strongest. Will everyone else show up, and why would they?
    • As one of the most recognizable western pop culture characters of the last century, and acknowledging the selectivity casual moviegoers now have toward superhero and comic book movies, word of mouth and response to reviews have been an important but volatile element in long-range modeling.
      • To that end, critics are largely positive toward the film with an 83 percent score from 235 Rotten Tomatoes submissions, in addition to an early audience score of 96 percent following Tuesday’s Prime shows.
    • One of several theories in this potential (and highly debatable) acceleration of interest from families has been tied to the lack of midsummer animated hits which often dominate that audience in July.
      • While many recent DC films for top-tier characters have leaned into darker, brooding tones without much comedy, this Superman is not that and marketing has made it very clear. (“The Krypto Factor”?)
      • Last year, Inside Out 2 and Despicable Me 4 drew blockbuster numbers during June and July to the tune of a combined $1.01 billion domestically. Short of last month’s How to Train Your Dragon remake ($228.5 million so far) and Elio ($55.2 million), there has been no new blockbuster theatrical offering for kids and families in theaters for a month now.
      • Devil’s advocate: May’s Lilo & Stitch ($410.4 million so far) was a major presence for this audience in early summer, though speculatively leaving an open market for that audience in summer’s back half. Also, Jurassic World Rebirth is playing well among families with teens, but it falls outside our comp group of G- and PG-rated summer tentpoles with a touch of comical lightness and all-audience accessibility about them, ala Superman, which we now know it has a few mature-leaning scenes that may put off parents of young children.
  • On the intangible side of projecting, Supermanhas come within domestic political crosshairs this week with multiple media outlets opining and fueling social discourse on James Gunn’s commentary about the movie and character’s thematic relevance to real-world immigration issues.
    • Whether or not this has a material effect on box office is incredibly challenging to predict, but if it does, it will most likely be across middle America with conservative-leaning fans and parents. That is exactly where this film needs to play with above-average appeal to reach higher projections.
  • Lastly, our long-range models have proven overly aggressive on a few DC films in recent years, a factor behind recent ranges scaling back following our six-week models to attempt some compensation without also ignoring other unique signals observed for this particular release.
 
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