Borg Queen - yay or nay?
- Thread starter BlueStuff
- Start date
I didn't like it. Giving the borg a "humanoid" face is symptomatic of overusing the borg, drawing them closer to the average humanoid villain type that we see in Trek. I enjoyed the impersonal character of the borg, it gave that species a hidieous uniqueness. Of course that only really works if you use the borg sparingly, the more you use them, the more tempting it is to give them on an intelligible face for our heroes to exchange dialogue with.
I thought the BQ smooching Picard and molesting Data back FC to be comical quite frankly. Despite the heroic efforts in Krige in that tole.
I thought the BQ smooching Picard and molesting Data back FC to be comical quite frankly. Despite the heroic efforts in Krige in that tole.
While I understand the story perspective, I think it was a poor choice for developing the Borg. It made them less alien, and more of a monarchy with an obsessive monarch to boot.
I'm ambivalent.
Although I still think the idea of a Queen damaged some of the 'horrifying power' of the Borg (which is - a nameless relentless grey collective that can't be reasoned with, can't be convinced otherwise once it's made up its mind, has no appreciation or sensibilities for almost anything we hold dear or fear, has no face to it), I can also understand that without at least some semblance of "personal antagonist" a writer would run out of interesting stories to tell sooner. There is only a limited number of stories one can tell with the Borg as we encountered them in Best of Both worlds, and still keep it fresh. So while I can understand while they brought her in, and the actresses generally did a fine job with them, all in all, I still think the borg were "better" before that - if used sparingly.
So I say: nay, let the proletarian collective revolution begin!
Although I still think the idea of a Queen damaged some of the 'horrifying power' of the Borg (which is - a nameless relentless grey collective that can't be reasoned with, can't be convinced otherwise once it's made up its mind, has no appreciation or sensibilities for almost anything we hold dear or fear, has no face to it), I can also understand that without at least some semblance of "personal antagonist" a writer would run out of interesting stories to tell sooner. There is only a limited number of stories one can tell with the Borg as we encountered them in Best of Both worlds, and still keep it fresh. So while I can understand while they brought her in, and the actresses generally did a fine job with them, all in all, I still think the borg were "better" before that - if used sparingly.
So I say: nay, let the proletarian collective revolution begin!
In FC, they managed to have the Queen and keep the Collective too. They get a big villain for their big movie, while also (just barely) keeping a grip on what had made the Borg so terrifying in the past -- you can go along with the Queen as the embodiment of the hive. It's impressive they pulled it off, and they probably should have known not to push their luck, because it completely falls apart the minute the Queen shows up on Voyager. On TV, she's just a campy dominatrix villain.
Now, I love a campy dominatrix villain, and as those things go the Queen is a good one. But it's disappointing because it's such a comedown from what they started with. I think if I'd only ever seen Voyager, the Queen would have been a highlight.
Now, I love a campy dominatrix villain, and as those things go the Queen is a good one. But it's disappointing because it's such a comedown from what they started with. I think if I'd only ever seen Voyager, the Queen would have been a highlight.
M
marlboro
Guest
Nay.
I agree with everything that Paradise City said above.
A standalone Voyager episode about a character who was assimilated but whose mind was sufficiently powerful to dominate a portion of the Borg collective and become a queen (or king) might have been interesting.
I would have liked to see more episodes of Voyager that centered around how the various species in the Delta Quadrant were affected by living so near the Borg than actually seeing the collective itself.
I agree with everything that Paradise City said above.
A standalone Voyager episode about a character who was assimilated but whose mind was sufficiently powerful to dominate a portion of the Borg collective and become a queen (or king) might have been interesting.
I would have liked to see more episodes of Voyager that centered around how the various species in the Delta Quadrant were affected by living so near the Borg than actually seeing the collective itself.
Yay-
It's a perfectly natural evolution from a creative (out of universe) perspective, and seems logical internally. In my opinion, the execution of the queen varies:
It's a perfectly natural evolution from a creative (out of universe) perspective, and seems logical internally. In my opinion, the execution of the queen varies:
- First Contact- Very well done overall. I don't personally care for the retcon that she was there with Locutus in BoBW, though.
- Dark Frontier- I like this one too; especially the story aspect that Seven was deliberately placed on Voyager. Suzanna Thompson looks the part, and for the most part, the dialogue is acceptable(to me)
- Unimatrix Zero- Not a big fan of this episode. S. Thompson is back, and the dialogue feels so "American." She has good moments, but this was the "one Borg episode too many"(in my mind) that Braga has mentioned.
- Endgame- Alice Krige is back! Although she has hardly any screentime, These are my absolute favorite "Borg Queen moments" of all! I just love the accent, the weird pacing around, the awkward body language/expressions. IMO, this is the most alien feeling BQ we've ever seen.
I totally agree! They are mentioned by a lot of aliens, but not very often do we come across species that have been really effected by the Borg. It would have been cool to see a species that has a successful defense against Borg incursions that share with or Voyager steals from them the knowledge of.
Although I am not particularly a declared feminist, I like the idea to see a
a brainy female representative able to control (though terrifying by the same) a so big group made of different species but mainly male.
In fact, she and Janeway share so many similarities like their frail figure, their intelligence, their tactical finesse and a demonic spirit (Janerway's reckless behaviour in Equinox for example ... though I think it was understandable), which allow them to fight (and to win on) any species.., even Species 8472's predatory minds (although it was rather the fact of the association of Janeway & Seven/EMH forces)!
And who else could have defeated the Borg Queen? Bah, someone who was almost like her. Janeway!
. If the Borg Queen - the one we have known - had survived at the end of Endgame, I think that she and Adm. Janeway would have enjoyed interstellar chess games! Not sure that Starfleet and the Federation 
a brainy female representative able to control (though terrifying by the same) a so big group made of different species but mainly male.
In fact, she and Janeway share so many similarities like their frail figure, their intelligence, their tactical finesse and a demonic spirit (Janerway's reckless behaviour in Equinox for example ... though I think it was understandable), which allow them to fight (and to win on) any species.., even Species 8472's predatory minds (although it was rather the fact of the association of Janeway & Seven/EMH forces)!
And who else could have defeated the Borg Queen? Bah, someone who was almost like her. Janeway!
. If the Borg Queen - the one we have known - had survived at the end of Endgame, I think that she and Adm. Janeway would have enjoyed interstellar chess games! Not sure that Starfleet and the Federation 
I hate the Borg Queen as a concept, and the only way I can really deal with it is to either say that the queen is simply serving as an avatar of the collective, or that she's not really a queen at all, but simply created for the purposes of manipulating Picard, Seven, or whomever (I grant that doesn't stand up in certain cases).
That said, I think Krige did a better job than Thompson...though I've gotten a kick out of seeing Thompson in "Arrow"!
That said, I think Krige did a better job than Thompson...though I've gotten a kick out of seeing Thompson in "Arrow"!
I thought that was an very interesting dynamic to add to the Geonosians and an example of good world building.
In fact, she and Janeway share so many similarities like their frail figure, their intelligence, their tactical finesse and a demonic spirit (Janerway's reckless behaviour in Equinox for example ... though I think it was understandable), which allow them to fight (and to win on) any species.., even Species 8472's predatory minds (although it was rather the fact of the association of Janeway & Seven/EMH forces)!
And who else could have defeated the Borg Queen? Bah, someone who was almost like her. Janeway!
Yes, the interaction of these two characters reminded me so much of some of the interactions between Sisko and Dukat.
Blowing up 64,000 Drones because you lost track of 3 was very stupid.
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