Borders - the end

[Sakrysta]

Just speaking personally, books have gotten to where they cost too much. I might be willing to put down $10-plus on a book I know I love, but that's way too much to gamble on. And I would think that impulse purchases would be the brick and mortar stores' bread and butter. I've done a lot of browsing the last few weeks as the sale has progressed, and I can't tell you how many books I've picked up and had this conversation with myself:

"Oooh, this looks interesting. Nice cover. Intriguing title. Let's see what it's about." turn book over/open flap, read synopsis "Now that sounds good. I'd love to read that sometime." eyes drift to $14.95 price tag, brain does 20% discount math "Man, even $3.00 off, that's still $12 plus tax. It doesn't look THAT good." put book back, lather-rinse-repeat

I mean, seriously, what average, avid reader can afford to put out that kind of money to read even 4 or 5 books a month? Nevermind those of us who can go through a TON more. Even at the MMPB $8 a pop, that's still just impractical.

With Borders, they had decent coupons, and with the rewards membership, I was able to get MMPBs for just over $5 each. I can manage that. Now I'm back to hitting the 2 or 3 used bookstores that are within reasonable driving distance once a month or so, hoping to see the castoffs of richer people than I.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Just speaking personally, books have gotten to where they cost too much. I might be willing to put down $10-plus on a book I know I love, but that's way too much to gamble on. And I would think that impulse purchases would be the brick and mortar stores' bread and butter. I've done a lot of browsing the last few weeks as the sale has progressed, and I can't tell you how many books I've picked up and had this conversation with myself:

"Oooh, this looks interesting. Nice cover. Intriguing title. Let's see what it's about." turn book over/open flap, read synopsis "Now that sounds good. I'd love to read that sometime." eyes drift to $14.95 price tag, brain does 20% discount math "Man, even $3.00 off, that's still $12 plus tax. It doesn't look THAT good." put book back, lather-rinse-repeat

I mean, seriously, what average, avid reader can afford to put out that kind of money to read even 4 or 5 books a month? Nevermind those of us who can go through a TON more. Even at the MMPB $8 a pop, that's still just impractical.

With Borders, they had decent coupons, and with the rewards membership, I was able to get MMPBs for just over $5 each. I can manage that. Now I'm back to hitting the 2 or 3 used bookstores that are within reasonable driving distance once a month or so, hoping to see the castoffs of richer people than I.

I agree with you. Here is how I shop. I walk through the Sci - fi section and skim the books to see if there is anything that I HAVE to purchase at full price. If there is not, then I wander through the non - fiction bargain section. There I try to find hard backs for under 10 dollars or ones that are about 75% off.
Once a month or so I bulk purchase older pubs online (budget 30 -40 dollars) and collect older sci - paperbacks that can be bought "used".

The marketplace for books is not transparent. What makes a book cost what it does? MMPB can vary wildly in page#, font size, margin size, etc yet still cost the same. Hard backs are even worse. One recent Sci fi hard back had barely 250 pages, large margins, double spacing and a large font. It really only had about 150 pages of written material, yet it was almost 30 dollars!
Yet another Sci - fi novel was almost 400 pages, tightly spaced, with small fonts and margins, and was 24.99.
How am I as a consumer supposed to make a value judgment about a purchase?

 

[Sakrysta]

And I don't really understand people complaining about Borders' prices as opposed to Barnes & Noble or other major chains. As far as I can tell, both stores price their books at MSRP. I can't remember ever seeing any books priced higher.

 

[Broccoli]

^ Their book prices are generally fine (except compared against Amazon's prices). Their music and movie selection was priced way up. While that might be the MSRP, many other movie and music stores sell their products at discounted prices well below the MSRP.

 

[OmahaStar]

And I don't really understand people complaining about Borders' prices as opposed to Barnes & Noble or other major chains. As far as I can tell, both stores price their books at MSRP. I can't remember ever seeing any books priced higher.

Of the two Borders in Omaha, one actually did price books higher, and frequently. The one out on West Maple did that. It was odd, being able to see the original MSRP on the cover, and then a huge sticker with the Borders barcode sloppily applied, trying to cover that up (but usually covering up the item's description) for a much higher price.

I remember one in particular, was a paperback of one of Charlaine Harris's books. The MSRP was 6.99, but the sticker was 17.99. I thought maybe there was some confusion and they meant to slap this on the hardcover ... so I compared them. Different barcodes.

I asked the manager about it, holding out the two versions of the book, and was told "That's just what the publishers suggest we sell them at. We can price them at whatever we want. If you want it, you'll pay it."

The one on Dodge didn't play those games, but you never knew if something was in stock. Just because the website says they have 5 copies of a book, doesn't mean the employees have done anything with them. They would leave the books boxed up in the back room for weeks, until they'd finally get around to putting them out on the shelves ... and by then, I've already bought it from B&N or Amazon and finished the dang thing.

There were massive problems, from the top right down to the employees. Yeah, I'm sorry people are losing their jobs, and it sucks that another book chain is going out of business, but what were they expecting?

 

[Caesar753]

We had a really nice Borders in downtown Milwaukee, but now it's empty. I liked going there to browse and occasionally shop, but honestly Amazon has a better selection and cheaper prices. I'm sad that Borders closed and people lost their jobs, but Borders' closing simply reflects changing shopping habits.

 

[Steve Roby]

What I hate about bookstores (and record stores and video stores) closing is that I miss discovering something I didn't even know I wanted (or that it existed) until I saw it in a store or a knowledgeable employee pointed it out. Amazon recommendations so far haven't come close to replacing that experience. Boy, I miss Shake Records, the House of SF, Video Shoppers World, Organised Sound, Prime Crime, and so many others. Ah, for moments like the owner of Prime Crime saying "I hated this, you'll love it" and handing me a copy of Wireless by Jack O'Connell, which I'd never heard of and which completely blew me away. And so many other great experiences.

 

[rfmcdpei]

I remember one in particular, was a paperback of one of Charlaine Harris's books. The MSRP was 6.99, but the sticker was 17.99. I thought maybe there was some confusion and they meant to slap this on the hardcover ... so I compared them. Different barcodes.

I asked the manager about it, holding out the two versions of the book, and was told "That's just what the publishers suggest we sell them at. We can price them at whatever we want. If you want it, you'll pay it."

That's ridiculous! How does a bookseller expect to keep customers if it treats them so badly!

 

[JRoss]

Support your local booksellers. Chains are okay, but you have the best experience at the local.

 

[Sakrysta]

That's great if you have them. Not many places do anymore.

 

[Jedi_Master]

That's great if you have them. Not many places do anymore.

My town is in a "metro area" that includes about 4 - 500 thousand people. We have two local bookstores within twenty minutes driving time and several more within 45 minutes driving time.

Is my city unusual? We have two large book chains also. We also have a large community college, an aeronautical university, a chiropractic university and several private schools within our "metro area".

 

[Jedi_Master]

What I hate about bookstores (and record stores and video stores) closing is that I miss discovering something I didn't even know I wanted (or that it existed) until I saw it in a store or a knowledgeable employee pointed it out. Amazon recommendations so far haven't come close to replacing that experience. Boy, I miss Shake Records, the House of SF, Video Shoppers World, Organised Sound, Prime Crime, and so many others. Ah, for moments like the owner of Prime Crime saying "I hated this, you'll love it" and handing me a copy of Wireless by Jack O'Connell, which I'd never heard of and which completely blew me away. And so many other great experiences.

I can honestly say I have never had a chain book store employee recommend a book to me, or even speak to me without being spoken to. It seems that they are there to sell Nooks, reward "programs", or coffee. There is no wonder of discovery in a chain store.

 

[FatherRob]

What I hate about bookstores (and record stores and video stores) closing is that I miss discovering something I didn't even know I wanted (or that it existed) until I saw it in a store or a knowledgeable employee pointed it out. Amazon recommendations so far haven't come close to replacing that experience. Boy, I miss Shake Records, the House of SF, Video Shoppers World, Organised Sound, Prime Crime, and so many others. Ah, for moments like the owner of Prime Crime saying "I hated this, you'll love it" and handing me a copy of Wireless by Jack O'Connell, which I'd never heard of and which completely blew me away. And so many other great experiences.

I have a similar feeling stateside about the loss of Waldenbooks (absorbed into Borders and now disappearing), Suncoast, and Musicland. I can't tell you how many discoveries I made in those stores, either by staff picks or just in wandering and looking at things. Movies I would never have seen - for good or for ill - that I now feel fortunate to have had the chance to see, on account of the ability to browse. Amazon's recommendations, while at times helpful, are not as useful or as much fun as browsing row after row of books, movies, or music and having an ah-hah moment.

Support your local booksellers. Chains are okay, but you have the best experience at the local.

What local booksellers? The closest I've got is my local Half Price Books (which I realize is a chain!). Within a 30 minute drive of me, I have two HPB's and a B&N. That's it, so far as I know. The last local bookstore I lived in proximity to was called Bookworld in Anderson, Indiana. They had mostly used books, but carried a wall of new releases, including a good chunk of SciFi and specifically Star Trek. The last book I remember buying there was The Eternity Artifact by L.E. Modisett. (A terrible book, BTW)

That's great if you have them. Not many places do anymore.

My town ... two local bookstores within twenty minutes driving time and several more within 45 minutes driving time.

Is my city unusual?

I think it is. I live just south of Indianapolis. No bookstores in my town, no non-speciality bookstores in the county seat. Greenwood has a B&N and a Half Price. That's it.

I can honestly say I have never had a chain book store employee recommend a book to me, or even speak to me without being spoken to. It seems that they are there to sell Nooks, reward "programs", or coffee. There is no wonder of discovery in a chain store.

When I was in Seminary, I worked at a local shopping mall. I'd take my lunch, head to MCL for a quick meal, and then hit the bookstore for the rest of my break. The manager, asst. manager, and I all became good friends, all because they took an interest in their customers and engaged them on a regular basis. Since I was a regular, I always deferred to the occassional visitors. I miss those days... and while my genres of preference never matched up with the manager's, we had great chats. The assistant manager and I became very good friends, hanging out a lot... he even taught me how to drive! We keep in touch, though not as frequently as I would like (we live some distance apart), to this day.

Rob+

 

[Corran Horn]

A girl at Waldenbooks (RIP Waldenbooks) recommended the Dresden series to me and I ended up really enjoying them. (and still do)

I mostly went to Borders for the signings they had. The Oakbrook, IL store had some great authors drop by for signings.

 

[BrotherBenny]

I used to live in London, UK where there are hundreds of bookstores of every type. Borders UK, which went out of business in 2010, was usually a good store with fairly friendly staff but the company itself was mismanaged from the top. There used to be a few B&N in the UK but I think they closed down, and the only other British bookstore chain is about to go too, I think. I used to love going to Borders when I finished work but then they started to shrink the selection of SFF books, with a lot of shelf space dedicated to a handful of franchises, LOTR (4-5 shelves), SW (2-3 shelves), ST, Buffy, other TV tie ins, Warhammer, D&D, M:TG, etc (1-2 shelves) so I stopped going there and went online to find what I wanted. It was rare that I would buy something from there anymore.

Then I moved to the US, had no money and couldn't buy anything. Then I was given a Kindle and bought a few more things. Chains are dying in favor of the internet.

 

[Sakrysta]

That's great if you have them. Not many places do anymore.

My town is in a "metro area" that includes about 4 - 500 thousand people. We have two local bookstores within twenty minutes driving time and several more within 45 minutes driving time.

Is my city unusual? We have two large book chains also. We also have a large community college, an aeronautical university, a chiropractic university and several private schools within our "metro area".

Honestly, I think it is. Other than Barnes & Noble, I have 2 (maybe 3 - there's one I haven't investigated in a long while) bookstores in my area. They are used bookstores that carry just a handful of new bestsellers.

In my experience, independent bookstores can't afford to maintain enough variety in their inventory to make shopping them worthwhile, and they have the same MSRP issues as the big chains. So impulse buying is even less likely, as is finding whatever you might be specifically looking for. Sure, they could order it for me, but these days I can do it myself, cheaper, bundle with other things to save on shipping, and have it sent to my house instead of having to go there again to pick it up.

The landscape is evolving, and there isn't much that can be done to reverse it now, I think. Physical media will most likely be obsolete within a generation, as thinking gravitates toward, "Why wait for something to be shipped to my house when I can download it instantly?"

 

[Snaploud]

Just speaking personally, books have gotten to where they cost too much. I might be willing to put down $10-plus on a book I know I love, but that's way too much to gamble on. And I would think that impulse purchases would be the brick and mortar stores' bread and butter. I've done a lot of browsing the last few weeks as the sale has progressed, and I can't tell you how many books I've picked up and had this conversation with myself:

"Oooh, this looks interesting. Nice cover. Intriguing title. Let's see what it's about." turn book over/open flap, read synopsis "Now that sounds good. I'd love to read that sometime." eyes drift to $14.95 price tag, brain does 20% discount math "Man, even $3.00 off, that's still $12 plus tax. It doesn't look THAT good." put book back, lather-rinse-repeat

I mean, seriously, what average, avid reader can afford to put out that kind of money to read even 4 or 5 books a month? Nevermind those of us who can go through a TON more. Even at the MMPB $8 a pop, that's still just impractical.

With Borders, they had decent coupons, and with the rewards membership, I was able to get MMPBs for just over $5 each. I can manage that. Now I'm back to hitting the 2 or 3 used bookstores that are within reasonable driving distance once a month or so, hoping to see the castoffs of richer people than I.

Check out http://www.webscription.net/ All their e-books are inexpensive (even the new ones) (the one exception being the advanced release editions: marked as ARCs). It's mostly just science fiction, though.

Additional note: All their e-books are free for disabled readers.

 

[DimesDan]

I used to live in London, UK where there are hundreds of bookstores of every type. Borders UK, which went out of business in 2010, was usually a good store with fairly friendly staff but the company itself was mismanaged from the top. There used to be a few B&N in the UK but I think they closed down, and the only other British bookstore chain is about to go too, I think. I used to love going to Borders when I finished work but then they started to shrink the selection of SFF books, with a lot of shelf space dedicated to a handful of franchises, LOTR (4-5 shelves), SW (2-3 shelves), ST, Buffy, other TV tie ins, Warhammer, D&D, M:TG, etc (1-2 shelves) so I stopped going there and went online to find what I wanted. It was rare that I would buy something from there anymore.

Then I moved to the US, had no money and couldn't buy anything. Then I was given a Kindle and bought a few more things. Chains are dying in favor of the internet.

I can't really say about the rest of London as I when visiting I stick to the centre of the city, but Charing Cross Road and just off it is a meca for new and (mainly) used bookshops. I was wondering about Borders UK in all this, my nearest one was Bristol, but haven't been there in a while so haven't seen it open or in this case not.

As for Waterstones, I know the HMV group is in financial trouble and I know there have been rumblings in the press by their chief execs that three hundred stores company wide will need to be closed, but the three nearest me, Bath, Trowbridge and Chippenham are all open and the Bath and Chippenham store always has a wideish selection of Trek Novels.

When I was at uni, there was a massive independent bookshop which was brilliant, being in Bath now though, there are three in the city, but all pretty small ones and dozens of charity shops which is actually where I get most of my books now a days.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Waterstones is the only proper chain bookstore in the UK unless you count W H Smith. Central London, specifically Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue, have more secondhand bookshops per mile than almost anywhere in Britain (the exception being the town of Hay-on-Wye in Wales).

The time of chain bookstores is over. Independents will rise up from their ashes.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I wouldn't be quite so certain of that. Their role will be diminished--less market share to them--but I think there are certain ones that can survive. Flushing out the weakest may help the others to survive.