I've seen up through mid-season three of BSG, the characters really do nothing for me.
Spoilers Bonus scene from Season One Finale
- Thread starter David cgc
- Start date
I've seen up through mid-season three of BSG, the characters really do nothing for me.
NuBSG was good for three seasons, then absolutely fell off a cliff in the fourth. One of the things I love about B5 is that it's one of the few shows out there to do a long-term story arc and actually stick the landing.
It wasn't really about the characters (who were hard to love), nor for that matter the worldbuilding (which was all but nonexistent). What made nuBSG work (when it did) were the political allegories, which it pulled off masterfully.
When I don't enjoy the characters, to at least some degree, it ends up not working for me.
I agree. To that end, I've always found Jack's line in Shades of Grey "We don't need their stuff; we do need them." to be a better Star Trek moment than a lot of Star Trek moments.
While I'm certainly one to scoff at B5's quality, that's just mean.
This post has heart. Also, 80s-hair Nancy make me melt. Every time.
Glad it worked for you, and the allegories were OK, but I couldn't sit through it without wanting to slit my wrists.
Yeah, that's the mother of all multi quotes!
But... but... but... i can't think that far ahead
I see a post I like, I reply to it. I use multi-quote for multiple quotes about the same topic. I can't be blamed if one thread can bring out multiple excellent themes from people that need to be replied to in equal but separate posts
(kidding aside, i'll try to do better next time
)
The CIA and other intelligence agencies have always had rogue elements that engage in black operations on the fringes of their organizations and American law and perhaps Section 31 is a bit like that, only given an official title instead of ignored and dismissed as a figment of the imaginations of paranoid people. Section 31 could be what the CIA's black ops assets were during the Cold War, receiving semi-official sanction from the innermost corridors of the agency and their operations were on a strictly need-to-know basis by just a handful of higher-ranking officials who knew something was going on but even then knew just the barest and most obvious details and left the rest to the operatives in the field.
If a black ops helped U.S. defense and foreign policy the assets were quietly patted on the back and rewarded for their hard work and then they disappeared back into the woodwork to appear as "normal" employees or members of the outside world. Section 31 could simply be the Trek-era version of the agents who tried to kill Fidel Castro with poisoned cigars, failed and then went back to stirring up unrest on left-leaning college campuses and raising money for overseas guerilla movements favorable to U.S. interests.
If a black ops helped U.S. defense and foreign policy the assets were quietly patted on the back and rewarded for their hard work and then they disappeared back into the woodwork to appear as "normal" employees or members of the outside world. Section 31 could simply be the Trek-era version of the agents who tried to kill Fidel Castro with poisoned cigars, failed and then went back to stirring up unrest on left-leaning college campuses and raising money for overseas guerilla movements favorable to U.S. interests.
I'm still a bit confused but one can't not like Blazing Saddles, though it's been years since I've watched it. Not sure how it stands up.
The NID itself actually was supposed to be a legitimate government agency. The problem was they apparently had an extremely lax screening process for their personnel as nearly everyone in the NID was a "rogue agent." The writers eventually realized how silly this was, and had the rogue elements eventually split off from the NID and form their own organization, called "the Trust," which I'll agree was more or less a Section 31 of Stargate. Or, rather, they were until they got taken over by Goa'uld who then decided to partake in corporate espionage in a storyline that ultimately went nowhere.
That show really should have ended when RDA left.
I've watched every episode of that show, albeit a long time ago, and I have no idea what you're talking about. Who's RDA for one thing? I remember the Goa'uld that not two people pronounced the same way as being the Stargate equivalent to the Trill worms and that's pretty much it.
Are you fucking shitting me? RDA is the universally accepted abbreviation for Richard Dean Anderson, the show's fucking lead actor for the first eight seasons!
Oh I totally agree. But, I've always believed that nothing (nor anybody) is worth a damn in life if they aren't polarizing to some degree!
I always called him MacGyver. You mean he goes by another name?
Me too, lol.
i am surprised with the backlash against Section 31. Everybody seemed to have loved Lorca (before he was turned into a Bond villian) and his "end justifies the means" attitude, which was very much in spirit of Section 31 (and many people here suspected that he was a Section 31 agent).
I always loved the idea. I thought Federation sticking to their ideals and being successful in a galaxy full of hostile and ruthless aliens was a little naive. Section 31 made the Trek universe more believable to me. Comparisons to CIA are apt.
I don't remember much about ENT Section 31 story lines but in DS9 they were not presented as good guys by any stretch. Regular characters like Bashir, Sisko and Obrien were outraged and actively trying to undermine them. I suspect Discovery will treat them the same way. And Section 31 was used for some damn good storytelling too. Their plan to infect the founders through Odo was ingenious.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mirror Lorca does turn out to be an agent from Section 31, or Prime Lorca for that matter. And as I mentioned in another thread, in some future show we may find out Section 31 was responsible for blowing up Klingon moon Praxis.
I always loved the idea. I thought Federation sticking to their ideals and being successful in a galaxy full of hostile and ruthless aliens was a little naive. Section 31 made the Trek universe more believable to me. Comparisons to CIA are apt.
I don't remember much about ENT Section 31 story lines but in DS9 they were not presented as good guys by any stretch. Regular characters like Bashir, Sisko and Obrien were outraged and actively trying to undermine them. I suspect Discovery will treat them the same way. And Section 31 was used for some damn good storytelling too. Their plan to infect the founders through Odo was ingenious.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mirror Lorca does turn out to be an agent from Section 31, or Prime Lorca for that matter. And as I mentioned in another thread, in some future show we may find out Section 31 was responsible for blowing up Klingon moon Praxis.
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Liking a particular character of any kind has nothing to do with embracing worn-out, hackneyed and simple-minded conspiracy cliches, which is all that Section 31 ever has been. I'd say that "Trek doesn't need that stuff," but honestly any creative teams who aren't consciously doing suspense pot-boilers should do better than to fall back on it.
If there's one thing I don't like about Section 31 it's that since their introduction they've become the Star Trek universe's boogeymen in that everything shady that goes on is their doing. The novels have made Section 31 behind Kirk's mission to steal a cloaking device in The Enterprise Incident, the discovery of the Omega Molecule and subsequent drafting of the Omega Directive and the events of Insurrection. TATV even implied they were involved with Admiral Pressman and the whole Pegasus fiasco.
You know, some things can be the actions of douchebags who aren't involved with secret black ops agencies.
