BLSSDWLF's TOS Enterprise WIP

[blssdwlf]

@All who replied to the bridge oddity - I wasn't trying to solve the facing of the bridge but seeing if the occasional lack of helm console alignment to the main viewer could be a "feature". Haven't even got to a point where I can build the bridge out and fit it to the hull yet

As to the rotation in "By Any Other Name"... anyone want to take a guess at where the helm was rotated to based on the panel/wall configuration?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

@All who replied to the bridge oddity - I wasn't trying to solve the facing of the bridge but seeing if the occasional lack of helm console alignment to the main viewer could be a "feature". Haven't even got to a point where I can build the bridge out and fit it to the hull yet

Have you checked out my thread? You're welcome to refer to it if that might help...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=89810

Regarding the bridge structure itself... the only "fixed" element in the bridge configuration must be the lift location. Every other element is simply a "computer workstation" (and yes, I'm including the main viewer in there!) and can be arranged in any way desired. Obviously, you can't rearrange the bridge "on the fly" and would need to be shut down when moving elements around, but the only "stake in the ground" is the lift, and the overall shape of the bridge dome (which could be swapped out, obviously).

I've always assumed that the "stock" Constitution bridge, as originally designed, had the the conn, the main viewer, and the lift all in-line along the centerline (only the lift "must" be on the centerline).

But have you noticed how disturbing it is when someone walks into a room immediately behind you, where you can't see them, even through the corner of your eye? So, my guess is that a number of commanders chose to have the various computer stations (including the viewer) powered down, disconnected, and "swapped around" to give them a similar layout, but allowing them to see who comes into the bridge through the corner of their eye without having to turn around and take their eye off of whatever is on the main screen or the astrogator or so forth.

When the major uprating was done (for TMP), this was addressed, and the original concept (conn and main viewer on centerline) was restored, but the lift tubes in the primary hull were entirely rebuilt so that there were two stations, one on either side.

The configuration we saw in TOS was clearly the case on three starships... the Enterprise, the Lexington, and the Exeter. It might well be that all of them were altered in this same way, or it may have only been those three. I doubt very much that the Intrepid's captain would have felt that same level of "unease" that a human captain would feel in that situation, for example.

 

[Mytran]

@All who replied to the bridge oddity - I wasn't trying to solve the facing of the bridge but seeing if the occasional lack of helm console alignment to the main viewer could be a "feature". Haven't even got to a point where I can build the bridge out and fit it to the hull yet

As to the rotation in "By Any Other Name"... anyone want to take a guess at where the helm was rotated to based on the panel/wall configuration?

The large blank wall to the right of Chekov pretty much nails the position to the final two consoles left of the main viewscreen (as you face it). The usual lables on these consoles are "Enviromental Station" and "Engineering Sub-Systems Monitor)".
By the book, anyway...

Cary - good to see you again, BTW

 

[blssdwlf]

@Navigator NCC2120 - thanks for the behind the scenes explanation. Interestingly, your explanation would've been okay. There is a scene from "The Enemy Within" where we clearly see the main viewer "off". I never noticed it until now while looking for reference shots

@Herkimer Jitty - I hear ya. I'm on the sidelines of whether the nub is the turbolift or is the the top of the shaft and the turbolift merely slides to the side when it reaches the bridge. I just thought it was interesting that the helm station doesn't always aim at the main viewer

@Cary L Brown - Thanks for the link to your thread. Mytran had pointed it out to me very early on in another thread (about the hangar/flight deck) It's good to see you posting back here at the board.

@Mytran - Ahh that makes sense! Hmm... of course they had to edit it in a way that there are crewmen there but not in the Chekov scene

 

[blssdwlf]

Need some help Can anyone confirm or provide the dimensions of these specific props used in TOS?

TOS Microtapes - from Enterprise: Defiant = 3 X 2.25 X 0.25 inches. However, I'd like confirm the dimensions (if possible) from the actual TOS props unless there was evidence that the Enterprise: Defiant versions are identical to the original TOS ones.

Engineering Console (like the one behind Kirk and below the board) (the one that is at the entry foyer to the engine room and also used in several other scenes like the Phaser Control Room, etc) = H x W x D ?

Communication Panel (the grey part) = H x W x D ?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

 

[TIN_MAN]

One of the auctions listed a screen used TOS microtape as being 3 x 2.50 (thickness not specified), hope that helps?

 

[blssdwlf]

Thanks TIN_MAN 3" wide then would seem consistent so I can derive the sizes in this close-up:

 

[markyd]

Wow, that looks fantastic.

 

[blssdwlf]

Pulled out a rough mock-up of what the end nacelles might look like when "transforming" between flat and sphere ends. The "raised panel" would be the middle section of the flat end extending/retracting. The grill pattern would be panels that could slide in (slightly) and change color/recede into shadow.

 

[Mytran]

Aha, another Trek mystery solved! Nice one

 

[blssdwlf]

LOL - The Enterprise is truly more than meets the eye

 

[mattpiper]

Brilliant. It always bugged me, even as child, how the ends of the warp nacelles would go from grill to ball. Never occurred to me to figure out how to make them "transform." And this from a huge Robotech fan...

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Now all you need to do is figure out

• how to make the bridge module go up and down in height
• how the impulse engine vents switch between 2 and 8 exhaust ports
• how the main deflector dish grows and shrinks in diameter

 

[Professor Moriarty]

p.s. Oh yeah, and don't forget

• the retractable spikes on the forward warp nacelle domes
• the diameter and height of the lower sensor array dome on the primary hull
• the markings near the upper edges of the primary hull which appear and disappear

OK I'll stop now...

 

[Professor Moriarty]

OK, one more:

• the "NCC-1701" registry markings on the ventral side of the primary hull, which change orientation 180 degrees from time to time

 

[blssdwlf]

Funny enough, I've been playing around with these items

• how to make the bridge module go up and down in height

When I model the bridge area, I'll see if there is enough space for machinery to telescope out the module as it looks like it is just the taller dome sunken into the ship.

• how the impulse engine vents switch between 2 and 8 exhaust ports

This I've played with and the idea is to have 8 ports and various vent coverings slide in and out of place.

• how the main deflector dish grows and shrinks in diameter

I'm torn between blades fanning out from the smaller diameter to retracting outer blades that slide in.

• the retractable spikes on the forward warp nacelle domes

Exactly. Retractable spikes in the forward domes. The domes can transition between opaque and semi-transparent.

• the diameter and height of the lower sensor array dome on the primary hull

I haven't noticed this before. Is there an episode that I can check this against?

• the markings near the upper edges of the primary hull which appear and disappear

Are you referring to the black arcs near the port/starboard lights? If so, there would be hull panels that slide out of the way to expose them.

• the "NCC-1701" registry markings on the ventral side of the primary hull, which change orientation 180 degrees from time to time

This one I've read about. Is there a specific episode where the registry flipped (as in showing both ways in the same episode)?

• Here's another one: The windows from the Observation Deck in "The Conscience of the King". There are no matching square windows visible on the external shots. The only thing I can do here is assume that like other windows on the ship, they have a shutter ("The Mark of Gideon") and when closed, makes the window blend in on the exterior.

 

[Mytran]

the diameter and height of the lower sensor array dome on the primary hullI haven't noticed this before. Is there an episode that I can check this against?

I think it's for scenes where they switch between the 3' and 11' model. Check out The Cage and Tomorrow is Yesterday for good examples of the different lower saucer - the windows in that section are markedly lower on the smaller model.

Here's another one: The windows from the Observation Deck in "The Conscience of the King". There are no matching square windows visible on the external shots. The only thing I can do here is assume that like other windows on the ship, they have a shutter ("The Mark of Gideon") and when closed, makes the window blend in on the exterior.

That's pretty much the solution I came up with too (the great thing is, TMOG gives us an in-universe precedent!)

Just out of curiosity, did you have an ingenious in-universe explanation for why the bridge module would need to rise up & down?

ADDED A NEW ONE:
The navigation lights on the saucer change from 120 degrees to 180 degrees, depending on the shot (i.e. from WNMHGB or the series proper)

 

[blssdwlf]

@Mytran - I think I might be okay on the 3' lower saucer section difference. I'm using Tallguy's awesome collected FX shots page as a reference, but the only shot that is clear on the different shape is the "Cage Blur Away" shot and that looks like appeared only once. From that shot angle, I think the 11' would look pretty close to it as well.

I'm going to hunt around for the 120-180 degree nav light change. I know I saw it in one of my reference shots but need to place it in an episode to get a feel for how and when it would change and if it changed between shots in the same episode. (But my quick answer would be, an extra pair of backup lights? or lights that are rotated in and out of service for maintenance?)

Now there is a set of three lights on the bottom lower edge of the saucer rim in the 4 and 8 o'clock position that can be mistaken for the bottom nav light at the 3 and 9 o'clock position especially if they are not on. Could that be what you're thinking of?

As to an in-universe explanation to the adjustable height bridge dome? Not really A guess, if I were to build the mechanics behind it would be that the dome is not *the* bridge dome. It's a sensor dome that is on top of the bridge which is more nestled in the larger tear drop structure. The rear turbolift looking tube behind the dome is not a turboshaft but part of the lifting/lowering mechanism. The sensor dome rises to expose more sensitive gear and slides in when not needed.

As to how the bridge shot in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie" fits in, the "hole at the top" could just be the Talosian's way of presenting the memory to Kirk and crew (mismatched angles and fov from aliens) so I'm going to not factor that in to where the bridge is. (I'm quietly sneaking to a fireproof place )

 

[Mytran]

The 4 o'clock / 8 o'clock lights usually show up whenever footage from WNMHGB is used, but they are only lights, and an easy problem to deal with. I just thought I'd mention them for completeness.

Good speculation about the "bridge" dome! The transparent section as seemingly presented in The Menagerie and The Cage never made a lot of sense except as a a SFX POV shot (of either the audience or the Talosians). Or that would be one large, fragile ceiling!!! The job of the infamous zoom-in shot is to provide a sense of scale, which is does quite well.

In any case, we see the ceiling of the bridge when Kirk walks in during WNMHGB, and it is definitely opaque:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=3&page=3
(middle upper picture)

 

[Cary L. Brown]

@Mytran - I think I might be okay on the 3' lower saucer section difference. I'm using Tallguy's awesome collected FX shots page as a reference, but the only shot that is clear on the different shape is the "Cage Blur Away" shot and that looks like appeared only once. From that shot angle, I think the 11' would look pretty close to it as well.

I'm going to hunt around for the 120-180 degree nav light change. I know I saw it in one of my reference shots but need to place it in an episode to get a feel for how and when it would change and if it changed between shots in the same episode. (But my quick answer would be, an extra pair of backup lights? or lights that are rotated in and out of service for maintenance?)

Now there is a set of three lights on the bottom lower edge of the saucer rim in the 4 and 8 o'clock position that can be mistaken for the bottom nav light at the 3 and 9 o'clock position especially if they are not on. Could that be what you're thinking of?

As to an in-universe explanation to the adjustable height bridge dome? Not really A guess, if I were to build the mechanics behind it would be that the dome is not *the* bridge dome. It's a sensor dome that is on top of the bridge which is more nestled in the larger tear drop structure. The rear turbolift looking tube behind the dome is not a turboshaft but part of the lifting/lowering mechanism. The sensor dome rises to expose more sensitive gear and slides in when not needed.

As to how the bridge shot in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie" fits in, the "hole at the top" could just be the Talosian's way of presenting the memory to Kirk and crew (mismatched angles and fov from aliens) so I'm going to not factor that in to where the bridge is. (I'm quietly sneaking to a fireproof place )

Well, except that Roddenberry wanted it to be a big freakin' window... that makes perfect sense.

There's probably a happy medium to be found. Perhaps you can have a strut-based framework underneath it, ala TMP, but with the clear dome on top? That frame could also support the topside sensor system?