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Black Swan Discussion Thread

Unfortunately they do not...but there is some pretty erotic making out in their scene. Nat is bottomless but we don't see anything. The scene is filmed very stylish and respectfully.
 
going to see it Thursday with the promise of paid admission and free popcorn (gee.. I CAN be bought) and go in with no preconceived notions or thoughts. I've seen one trailer and it looks interesting enough.. I'm sure I'll have a few thoughts post-movie..
 
Reposted from the "Movies Seen in 2010" thread...

Black Swan ***1/2
2010, R, 108 minutes
Starring Natalie Portman (Nina), Mila Kunis (Lily), Vincent Cassel (Thomas), Barbara Hershey (Erica), Winona Ryder (Beth). Produced by Scott Franklin, Ari Handel, and Jennifer Roth. Music by Clint Mansell. Cinematography by Matthew Libatique. Editing by Kristina Boden and Andrew Weisblum. Written by Mark Heyman, Andres Heinz, and John McLaughlin. Based on a story by Andres Heinz. Directed by Darren Aronosfky.

Darren Aronosfky's films have always been about obsession. If you look at his filmography, each and every film looks at a certain individual and their obsession, their compulsion, their dedication, to achieve something or to obtain something, whether that be tangible or elusive. Let's take a look at his debut feature, entitled Pi, which chronicled a man's obsession over mathematical equations, and in essence, explored the detrimental consequences of his mental obsession. His next film, perhaps the one he is most known for, entitled Requiem for a Dream, is about individuals and their addiction to drugs, but not just the object, but the addiction for acceptance. The Fountain explores the concepts of immortality and grief, and about one man's obsession to save the woman that he loves and being unwilling or unable to accept the mortality that lies before him. The Wrestler shows an aging man and his dedication to his craft, living a life only he knows, and how his profession dominates and influences even the most mundane aspects of his life.

With Black Swan, Aronosfky's latest foray into self-obsession and arguably his greatest film since Requiem for a Dream, he once more explores the topic of being obsessed and dedicated to one's craft. It's an interesting and simultaneously reoccurring theme for Aronosfky, who gives his films such frenetic energy and pacing that you can tell based on his filmography that perhaps Aronosfky, like all great storytellers and geniuses, is a little obsessed himself. You could even call this a companion piece to The Wrestler - Aronosfky certainly does- and you can see why. Both films deal with individuals who strive for perfection and lead their lives with the sole goal of achieving something that literally consumes them and dominates their lives. Out of all Aronosfky's films, Black Swan is the most horrifying and yet the most beautiful. Really, when you boil the film down to its bare essence, despite the packaging and what you might believe given the subject matter, Black Swan is unequivocally a horror film.

Black Swan follows the story of ballerina Nina Sayers, played majestically and flawlessly by Natalie Portman, who is a dedicated and driven performer. When she discovers that company director Thomas (Vincent Cassel, who despite being a bit of a scumbag, is also consequently slightly brilliant based on his methods) decides to re-envision Swan Lake, he decides to "let go" of star Beth (Winona Ryder, in a brief but pivotal role) and searches for a new lead. His search settles on young Nina, who is chosen to replace Beth, and in her journey to inhabit both the controlled and disciplined White Swan, she must also inhabit the darker and more uncontrolled Black Swan. This is where Nina is tested and tried. She is flawless when it comes to honing the qualities of the White Swan, but Thomas and her mother (Barbara Hershey, in a multi-faceted performance that exceeds cliches) Erica pushes her to become more uninhibited and embrace her inner Black Swan. That is literally and metaphorically what Nina does in the film, and in this process and gradual evolution of self-discovery and self-exploration she comes across another ballerina named Lily (Mila Kunis, in a one-dimensional but effective role) who helps her come out of her shell.

The film is like a ticking time bomb, and the more the film pushes forward, the more we unravel the hidden entity that lies within the soft shell that is Nina. She begins the film as this timid and shy creature, but as the pressure of the production weighs on her, with expectations rising, and a fiercely aggressive director forcing her to slowly come out of that shell, tensions begin to gradually rise. Natalie Portman is a revelation in this film, and she literally must perform a metamorphosis similar to the one the White Swan must endure in the production Swan Lake. It's a tough act to preform and pull off, while still maintaining a sense of believability and emotional truism, but Portman sells you on a character that at the beginning of the film is this shy and fragile character, but toward the end changes so completely and utterly that it is actually quite shocking. You never hesitate for a moment to reconsider the type of dedication and utter commitment that Portman's character must endure, and what she must sacrifice - and that sheer willingness to sacrifice- but if anything, you feel empathetic toward her plight. What her character achieves at the end of the story is what any performer or artist wishes to achieve- to literally end your career on the highest note possible.

In this sense, Black Swan is very much a mirror to the production Swan Lake, so if you are familiar with the play, then you will be familiar with the structure of the film. That might give away some things when you're watching, including most prominently the ending, but it's not necessarily the ending or the trivial details that make this movie so engrossing, but the journey that gets you there. As I mentioned before, Black Swan calls back to Aronosfky's most popular film Requiem for a Dream in the way it moves and ebbs along pacing-wise. The film is only 108 minutes long, but it feels much shorter, and that's a testament to good filmmaking when you are watching something unfold and you are so wrapped up in the proceedings that it just whips on by. That's how tight and concise the narrative of the story remains, and Aronosfky here has stripped all the unessential elements and instead has focused on an incredibly tight story structure that flows and ebbs so effortlessly that almost every moment is too terrifying to watch. It's literally one of those films where the one word where I can best describe the entirety is "intense", and that's not a cheat or a mis-approximation, that is literally the best word to describe the film. There were moments when I just cringed, and not in the bad way, but in the good way that just made you feel uncomfortable.

Aronosfky focuses on some of the more minute details of the most simplistic things, but they never feel inconsequential, but as a matter of fact quite the opposite. There's a lot of shots of Nina preparing and you see the inner workings of what this dedication and commitment has done to her both psychologically and physically. We get close-up shots of bruised feet and scratches. Never once in my life did I feel the need to squint when observing a chiropractor adjusting someone as frail and fragile as Natalie Portman, but because Aronosfky focuses on those seemingly unimportant details, it gradually builds and builds and you begin to understand why he focuses on the things he does. He's building up a character, and he's building this story, and it's that obsessive attention to detail that makes Aronosfky so compelling as a storyteller and why he makes so compelling films. Only an obsessive man can get you into the finer workings of someone who feels so obsessed and commitment to their profession, and I believe Aronosfky knows more than he's letting on, but his films are his greatest journals and they say more than he ever could.

The rest of the cast is splendid. Mila Kunis, who stars as the potential rival ballerina who threatens to take everything away from Nina, plays the conventional stereotype that is expected in this type of story, except at the end of the film you're not really quite sure what role she did play, or if she was as a matter of fact just the female version of Tyler Durden. Vincent Cassel could have played the role of Thomas in a hammy and superficial way, but instead he imbues the character with some ambiguity and complexity that make you ultimately question his ulterior motives (there's one scene where Cassel's Thomas brings Nina back to his apartment that completely took me by surprise at how it unfolded). Even more impressive is Barbara Hershey as Erica, Nina's typical strong-willed mother. Even this character has more shades of gray than you might expect, and you end up really believing, despite Erica's vicarious relationship with Nina, that she really does care for her.

Black Swan is probably one of the most intense yet simultaneously engrossing films I've seen in 2010, and in that case probably one of the most memorable. It's a deeply affecting psychological thriller and even more so a greatly involving character study. It's also a deeply disturbing horror film, but similar to The Silence of the Lambs, has more sophistication and art than you might expect from a film of this ilk. It's also a really interesting and compelling drama, with fleshed out and multi-faceted characters and strong performances, and you mix all of these incredibly exciting, unpredictable ingredients and you achieve something truly spectacular. That end result is Black Swan, a film that is at once disturbing, beautiful, pulsating, and engrossing all at once. It's one hell of a film.
 
What can I say that Daneel and Jackson haven't already said? Aronofsky has struck gold again with the self-obsession theme and I would agree that this is his best film since Requiem for a Dream, possibly his best considering the dichotomy Daneel brings up. Unfortunately, I don't know the story "Swan Lake" all that well but I love the music and I was thrilled by the similarities Clint Mansell brings with is own score in this film. Oddly, as much as I love this film, I can't quite name it as my favorite film of the year, but only because Inception was such an incredible experience and Toy Story 3 had me bawling like a little baby.
 
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Oooh "Black Swan" and "Inception" had a big battle between each other and "Black Swan" won for my top film of the year, but by a very narrow margin. In fact I'm almost inclined on declaring a tie! I was just engrossed and immersed in the world that Afronosky created in this movie. The tone and visual style of the film just were incredible. I mentioned to JacksonArcher that it made me uncomfortable in scenes just because of the tone (uncomfortable in a good way not bad). For a year that has had it's fair share of duds and disappointments the end of the year has demonstrated that there are still some incredible films out there. I can't wait for "The Wolverine" now and will be buying "Black Swan" on DVD when it comes out...I'm guessing towards early Spring time just in time for the Oscars.
 
Unfortunately they do not...but there is some pretty erotic making out in their scene. Nat is bottomless but we don't see anything. The scene is filmed very stylish and respectfully.

Or, as the webmaster at homunculus.com said when he posted screen grabs, "Mila Kunis wears Natalie Portman like a feed bag!"
:lol:
 
Just saw it and I'm gonna make my assessment fairly short, but wow that was probably the best movie I've seen all year. I cannot wait to see what he does with The Wolverine and how we'll see his obsession be conveyed. The very surreal tone of this movie as we witness her madness spin out of control was very intense, although there were a few shots when she saw her reflection or hallucinate I swore i thought i saw a completely different actress made me think of the cliched supernatural thrillers moreso than the visceral psychological thriller this turned out to be. Maybe I would compare it to American Psycho. They seemed very similar to me. This movie being very good in it's own right though.

I've done a few projects shooting/editing stuff with the Pacific Northwest Ballet and seen the production of Swan Lake a few times now and now after seeing this movie it has totally changed my perception of it and the dance world in general. But yeah, bravo Mr. Aronofsky, bravo.
 
I'm going to be the lone wolf in here and say: I hated it.

Just hated it.

I thought it was pretty obvious and heavy handed. Shooting off of mirrors, all the black and white clothing, the choreographer saying the same thing over and over, "let yourself go..." I couldn't STAND Natalie Portman's character, the same look on her face through out the movie. At one point I was thinking, you deserve this.

And also, I felt like there was very little room for the movie to move. Aronofsky started out in a crazy world and it just got a little crazier. All the motifs were going from the beginning so there was no space to go, for me. If he had started WITHOUT the mirrors and maybe put some color on people and THEN moved to black and white and the mirrors...

And, I would much rather followed Kunis's character, I LIKED her, and watch HER go insane.

Watching someone already tightly wound get MORE tightly wound isn't all that interesting.

And, finally, I REALLY wished she actually HAD turned into the swan on stage, not just in her mind, THAT would have been cool, that would have been interesting.

But, I just HATED this movie. It just felt obvious. Cliche. Like a teenager wrote and directed it. "See, look, I'm making great art." Obvious Art is Obvious. Bleh.

And it's a big disappointment for me. I LOVED the Fountain.
 
^ I've avoided it, because I'm certain I'd have the exact same response at least. ;)
 
I hate to be the sleazy board member who asks if Natalie or Mila show their boobies, but...do Natalie or Mila show their boobies?

Thanks for asking what the rest of us that haven't seen the movie wanted to know! :rommie:
 
Real yawnfest for me. Not often that I consider asking for my money back from the theater, but God this was a dull film.
 
I'm going to be the lone wolf in here and say: I hated it.

Just hated it.

I thought it was pretty obvious and heavy handed. Shooting off of mirrors, all the black and white clothing, the choreographer saying the same thing over and over, "let yourself go..."

I didn't hate it, but I wasn't nearly as impressed by it as most people, for a lot of these same reasons. The heavy symbolism, the somewhat schizophrenic character arc that makes up for not really going very far by taking an extremely zig-zag route, and some instances of camp (defined as "failed seriousness"), all made this movie fall a bit short. It was so earnest, and was trying so hard, but I think it would've been helped by either trying less hard, and maybe cutting down on the symbolism and the razor-sharp focus on How Nina Got Her Grove In The First Place to give the audience some breathing room, or cranking the earnestness up to eleven, and going all out with the symbolism, and having every single shot be aggressively sculpted and drowning in many and varied types of symbolism, like The Shining.
 
There are three scriptwriters listed for this movie. There's so little dialogue it's hard to imagine what they did for their paychecks. As so often when the work is not actually written, there are severe problems. For instance, it is not certain what happens at the end. The apparent end is impossible.Thinking back, it is not even certain that Nina Sayers danced the Swan Queen! In another example, the choreographer is identified with the evil owl wizard of the ballet, but the conclusion seems to require that he corresponds to the prince.

The relentless identification of Nina's story with the ballet ungrounds the movie. The dancer who plays the prince has practically no dialogue, and even less interaction with Nina. Why make such an effort to realistically depict the sheer amount of work that goes into such a performance, if you're going to ignore everything about how real people behave? When the woman in Repulsion was going insane, she didn't interact with people, but she was locked in her apartment. However did the dancer (who I think went unnamed:rolleyes:) know he wasn't supposed to act like a normal human being around her?

I read an author's comment on a horror story once, about how the strange events should have some sort of bearing on life. "Connect, only connect!" The closest this movie comes to connecting is when Sebastian Stan drops a hint that only a fool cares about ballet in the first place. Hallucinations and elaborate delusions (as typical of Hollywood, so elaborate that they are obviously inspired more by mad scenes in other movies than by any interest in people with emotional problems) don't just happen. The movie seems to suggest that Nina's repressed lesbianism is driving her crazy, or maybe that when it starts getting unrepressed she's crazy. This seems both silly and backward to me.

The movie hits on Nina's craziness and escalates, relentlessly, but the crescendo verges on the monotonous, because in the end, it's not about anything but horrifying us. There was a little known Ashley Judd movie, Bugs, that did a better job than this movie. Rent it, if you can. It's not that Black Swan isn't a good horror movie, it is. It's just that's all it is.

As to Clint Mansell's score, I'm not familiar enough with the score for Swan Lake to know when the accompanying music was the original Tschaikovsky or a Mansell pastiche. (The use of the accompaniment to underline the parallels between Nina's story and the ballet itself is the sort of thing that can come across as heavy handed.) But the vast bulk of the score is either the ballet music or a close imitation of it, so I don't understand the brilliance of Clint Mansell, whose original contributions I recall to be limited to shock chords heard in hundreds of horror flicks.

There are some very striking visual effects, stealing from Poltergeist etc. But the choreography of the ballet, although explicitly stated to be a stark reinvention, seems to my eyes to exactly as cliche as any philistine vision of ballet. The swans in tutus fluttering their arms while mincing across the stage on tiptoes is reinventing Swan Lake? Unlike The Wrestler, the supposed climax, a perfect performance, doesn't show up on screen. Which is not to blame Natalie Portman, who's given her first impressive performance.
 
But the lack of plot or character detail is, like, a totally profound statement about how making vague allusions to the concept of art inherently creates a cinematic masterpiece, man. *takes another big, long hit*
 
Saw it today. Brilliant film. Just like a tinderbox waiting to ignite. It was anything but dull. Watching her go slowly insane was hook, line, and sinker. She was consumed by dance. Literally.
 
T

As to Clint Mansell's score, I'm not familiar enough with the score for Swan Lake to know when the accompanying music was the original Tschaikovsky or a Mansell pastiche. (The use of the accompaniment to underline the parallels between Nina's story and the ballet itself is the sort of thing that can come across as heavy handed.) But the vast bulk of the score is either the ballet music or a close imitation of it, so I don't understand the brilliance of Clint Mansell, whose original contributions I recall to be limited to shock chords heard in hundreds of horror flicks.

It's an adaptation/pastiche of Tschaikovsky--it's why Mansell won't get nominated for Best Original Score-- to much of someone else's work.
 
^^^Thanks for the information.

And speaking of information, what is the technical name, if any, for the zooming in for a closeup while the camera whirls around, them pulling back out, as it keeps on whirling. (It's rather overused, but of course making the viewers dizzy is going to make them uneasy.)
 
Natalie Portman won a much deserved Best Actress Golden Globe award this evening for her powerhouse performance in Black Swan.
 
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