Black Panther - Pre-release Thread

[kirk55555]

There may never have been a more appropriate use of an emojii. Many consider hip hop and it's surrounding culture to be the most pervasive American cultural export in history. You would be hard pressed to find a country in the world that has not been touched by it in some way. In most countries rap and hip hop culture are flourishing. Since the roots of rap stretch back to Africa, using rap is BP in infinitely appropriate.

I've been listening to "Stars" for a while now and that is a great song.

I only know that what I've heard in the odd tv documentary, and looking up traditional African music online, sure as hell doesn't bring up rap, hip hop or anything remotely resembling it, but whatever. I sure as hell don't know anything about that topic. So Black Panther is going to have a shit soundtrack that doesn't resemble anything African sounding that I can find. A lot of modern movies have shit soundtracks. Plus, I guess if I can believe that there is a secret, super advanced country hiding in plain sight, I can believe that the same country has crap taste in music.

Actually, to be fair, I doubt any "Wakandan" music would involve rapping, that's just movie soundtrack stuff. Rap is shit but its popular shit, and its in everything. The BP trailer was more obnoxious with it then most, but I doubt the movie itself is going to be filled with it. I probably won't be seeing it in theaters anyway (no one else I know has any interest in it, except my brother but neither of us can drive so we won't be able to see it), so the mute button will take care of anything too annoying in the film itself by the time I get to see it.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm in awe of your ability to admit you don't know anything on the subject and then immediately declare the soundtrack as "shit," presumably without even listening to the songs that have already been released.

 

[crookeddy]

Black Panther: 100% on RT with an 8.6 rating. Could end up highest of all the Marvel movies.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm in awe of your ability to admit you don't know anything on the subject and then immediately declare the soundtrack as "shit," presumably without even listening to the songs that have already been released.

Well, since I loathe literally every rap/etc song ever, and the only person making music past, say, the 80s that I like (outside of some people on youtube) is Weird Al, I can confirm that I'll hate the soundtrack. Unless bands/people like Queen, The Beatles, The Who or Jackson Browne are making surprise appearances, I can't imagine any part of the soundtrack being tolerable to me. Rap is crap to me, no exceptions. Same with hip hop, etc. I also loathe country western at about the same level as rap, but I doubt I have to worry about that being in BP. I can't make any comments on objective quality though, because to me its all equally shit.

To be fair, the last movies that had soundtracks I didn't loathe (that I can remember) were Highlander and Wayne's World, which came out when I was -4 years old and a bit under 2 years old, and GotG 1 and 2. I'm also only talking about soundtracks that get promoted. I'll probably like the orchestration (is that the correct term for the background music in movies?) just fine, although the MCU has only had one or two memorable tracks for me, like the Avengers theme. Its when movies have pre-made songs in them, which Marvel doesn't really do outside of the GotG movies, that I have problems with.

Really, most movies soundtracks, if they have licensed songs, have been crap for decades. BP isn't any different, except it had a trailer that was a bit obnoxious with it. Hell, even Star Trek got a shit song for Beyond, but it wasn't in the actual movie so it didn't really matter. It also had a crap song in the movie, but I was able to forgive that Beastie Boys crap because I enjoyed the rest of the movie so much (my Dad and brother were less forgiving).

 

[gblews]

I only know that what I've heard in the odd tv documentary, and looking up traditional African music online, sure as hell doesn't bring up rap, hip hop or anything remotely resembling it, but whatever. I sure as hell don't know anything about that topic. So Black Panther is going to have a shit soundtrack that doesn't resemble anything African sounding that I can find. A lot of modern movies have shit soundtracks. Plus, I guess if I can believe that there is a secret, super advanced country hiding in plain sight, I can believe that the same country has crap taste in music.

Actually, to be fair, I doubt any "Wakandan" music would involve rapping, that's just movie soundtrack stuff. Rap is shit but its popular shit, and its in everything.

Well THAT is for sure. (bold text mine).

So you think that what you saw in those documentaries you watched is the extent of the scope of popular music in most Africa countries? Are you sure you were watching documentaries and not "the odd" Tarzan movie or something? You know, there are many many cities in African countries with vibrant pop music scenes that feature all sorts of Western influenced music, especially hip hop and rap.

What you probably saw is what would likely would be considered "folk" music and dance, that is, music and dance that is indigenous to certain peoples and countries It wouldn't be unusual to see some of this type of thing in a modern movie set in an African country, but please don't think that this is the only type of music people in those countries enjoy.

Yes, modern American music has made it to "darkest Africa". Rap and hip hop music may not be known as "Nigerian" music, or "Ghanaian" music, or "Egyptian" music, but like most countries around the world today, people in this countries have embraced and even produced their own, rappers. They rap in their own languages about their own issues.

If you're interested, input "African rappers" or "Nigerian" rappers into google and see what you get.

 

[kirk55555]

Well THAT is for sure. (bold text mine).

So you think that what you saw in those documentaries you watched is the extent of the scope of popular music in most Africa countries? Are you sure you were watching documentaries and not "the odd" Tarzan movie or something? You know, there are many many cities in African countries with vibrant pop music scenes that feature all sorts of Western influenced music, especially hip hop and rap.

What you probably saw is what would likely would be considered "folk" music and dance, that is, music and dance that is indigenous to certain peoples and countries It wouldn't be unusual to see some of this type of thing in a modern movie set in an African country, but please don't think that this is the only type of music people in those countries enjoy.

Yes, modern American music has made it to "darkest Africa". Rap and hip hop music may not be known as "Nigerian" music, or "Ghanaian" music, or "Egyptian" music, but like most countries around the world today, people in this countries have embraced and even produced their own, rappers. They rap in their own languages about their own issues.

If you're interested, input "African rappers" or "Nigerian" rappers into google and see what you get.

Oh, I didn't think it was all music, by far. I just thought stuff like that was the more "traditional" music. I don't dispute that rap/etc could be popular over there nowadays, and if it came across like that then its not what I intended. I can totally see that style of music being popular. I'm not trying to imply that people in Africa, which is a big place, don't listen to or make music inspired by music from outside the continent. I was more thinking about it in the "what would be the traditional music of a place like wakanda", I wasn't thinking about modern society but what would be historical music (is that a term?) of an area like that.

I mean, yeah, I'd raise a quizzical eyebrow if there is some specific scene of T'Challa listening to, well, any modern american music, but I doubt that will happen. At most it will probably be a soundtrack thing, and that stuff, like I said before, is usually terrible (to me, at least) anyway. It's not like I'll dislike a soundtrack more or less because they use rap instead of, I don't know, Lady Gaga's music instead of rap.

I mean, I do hope they go the normal MCU route (outside of the GotG films) of not having any licensed songs actually play during the movie and just have that stuff on some soundtrack they can sell (like most movies nowadays), but either way I'm sure it won't be a huge deal. At most, it just means muting the film for a few minutes during an action scene or montage. I'm certainly dealt with worse, and I'm still generally excited to see the movie.

 

[gblews]

I mean, yeah, I'd raise a quizzical eyebrow if there is some specific scene of T'Challa listening to, well, any modern american music,

Why?

 

[crookeddy]

Why?

Africans don't have radio or internet </sarcasm

 

[Set Harth]

Hell, even Star Trek got a shit song for Beyond, but it wasn't in the actual movie so it didn't really matter.

It was in the credits, which counts as part of the movie.

 

[kirk55555]

Why?

I really doubt the king of Wakanda is listening to modern American music. Plus, just based on the comics, it feels like if he does listen to foreign music it would be Classical stuff. Now the MCU is different, but I would never buy the comic version of T'Challa listening to anything like rap, hip hop, etc. When it comes to marvel hero musical tastes, just off the top of my head, I'd say Luke Cage? Yeah. The Human Torch? I'd buy it.

But T'Challa has always seemed more similar to someone like Beast from the X-Men, a genius who likes more of the classic things. Maybe not to the extent of Beast, who is constantly on about old english literature and various other frasier like interests (one of the reasons Kelsey Grammer was such a great casting choice in X3), but that's how he always came off to me. its not like he's required to like or dislike certain types of music. Honestly it seems a bit weird to imply that every character of a certain ethnicity likes a certain type of music. To be clear I ultimately don't give a shit what music the MCU BP likes or dislikes, I'd just find it a bit odd. Kind of like if Professor Xavier revealed that his favorite musical group was Daft Punk, or if Reed Richards was a huge fan of Cyndi Lauper.

It was in the credits, which counts as part of the movie.

It sure as hell doesn't. A movie will stick any old shit over the credits, that's all post movie stuff and doesn't actually effect the movie itself.

 

[FPAlpha]

Black Panther: 100% on RT with an 8.6 rating. Could end up highest of all the Marvel movies.

Yeah well.. wait until it is actually released to the general public, this number will of course decrease. How far it obviously depends on the movie itself but i hear unanimously good buzz and often enough it's claimed to be one of the best Marvel movies.

Personally i've been burned too many times by such hype only to see a mediocre movie but i hope it measures up.. Black Panther is a very cool character and not trying to be a SJW but it's time a central character is something other than a male caucasian (now Marvel just needs to take a page from DC and have a leading woman that actually tells a good story without having her display ass and belly free armor they way DC let Wonder Woman be done).

 

[FPAlpha]

I really doubt the king of Wakanda is listening to modern American music. Plus, just based on the comics, it feels like if he does listen to foreign music it would be Classical stuff. Now the MCU is different, but I would never buy the comic version of T'Challa listening to anything like rap, hip hop, etc. When it comes to marvel hero musical tastes, just off the top of my head, I'd say Luke Cage? Yeah. The Human Torch? I'd buy it.

Why not? Europeans listen to Rap and Hip Hop and the origins are US, so why should an African be excluded?

People like what they like.. my main musical taste is Rock music but i also listen to general pop music and some Rap, hell even some classical music if i catch it somehow.

And why would he then listen to classical music? To show he's sophisticated and educated? That's as generic cliche as it can get.. tough street types listen to Wu Tang Clan but college educated people are into Mozart and Bach - that's too simple and i'd like to have characters that break out of that mold.

When i saw the first trailer with it's hip hop inspired soundtrack it didn't quite mesh with the more tribal aspects of the trailer but the more i hear the cooler it gets.. this is what Wakanda is about both in the comics and it seems the movie. Wakanda cherishes and cares deeply for its its heritage but it is very open minded for new developments and trends that get adopted if they feel it suits them so why not blow some RZA or old school street rap while assembling and finetuning an antigravity engine?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

It sure as hell doesn't. A movie will stick any old shit over the credits, that's all post movie stuff and doesn't actually effect the movie itself.

Considering Oscars have been given to songs that only appear in the closing credits, I think you're way off the mark there. Many songs played there are often commentary to the themes of the films.

 

[Set Harth]

It sure as hell doesn't.

Yeah, it does. The credits are part of the movie reel and play in the theater. That's called being part of the movie. Not to mention the fact that mid-credit scenes and post-credit scenes exist. They're part of the movie too. Even when people don't know about them because they only know the movie from TV!

 

[kirk55555]

Considering Oscars have been given to songs that only appear in the closing credits, I think you're way off the mark there. Many songs played there are often commentary to the themes of the films.

I'm betting that, since they aren't in the film, they aren't usually chosen by the people making the film and certainly aren't made to fit in with them. Its all marketing. Like "Wow, maybe we can get some stupid kids to watch Star Trek Beyond because some random woman they recognize made a song we can put over the credits". Or as a way to oscar bait a song, I guess.

I sure as fuck don't think Generic Popular Song #45675 was a commentary on Star Trek Beyond, and I don't think I've seen many movies where the songs are even connected, outside of musicals and things like Guardians of the Galaxy. The closest is playing the song Iron Man at the end credit of the Iron Man film, and from what I understand the song has nothing to do with the character. This isn't like James Gunn specifically putting certain songs in the GotG film, its just sticking something in the end credits to maybe make people stick around, or maybe promote something.

Why not? Europeans listen to Rap and Hip Hop and the origins are US, so why should an African be excluded?

People like what they like.. my main musical taste is Rock music but i also listen to general pop music and some Rap, hell even some classical music if i catch it somehow.

And why would he then listen to classical music? To show he's sophisticated and educated? That's as generic cliche as it can get.. tough street types listen to Wu Tang Clan but college educated people are into Mozart and Bach - that's too simple and i'd like to have characters that break out of that mold.

When i saw the first trailer with it's hip hop inspired soundtrack it didn't quite mesh with the more tribal aspects of the trailer but the more i hear the cooler it gets.. this is what Wakanda is about both in the comics and it seems the movie. Wakanda cherishes and cares deeply for its its heritage but it is very open minded for new developments and trends that get adopted if they feel it suits them so why not blow some RZA or old school street rap while assembling and finetuning an antigravity engine?

In the end, it doesn't matter. T'challa having weird tastes in music for a super genius king of a secret country might make me roll my eyes at the people making the film, but it won't effect my overall enjoyment of the movie or character. That said, I would bet that he never actually listens to any music specifically during the movie, since I'm pretty sure Peter Quill and Tony Stark are the only characters to put on music inside their films (as opposed to songs added to the soundtrack). Worst case scenario, I mute an action scene or two in the movie when I finally get to see it.

While I consider it annoying, I'm use to shit music in movies. Black Panther would have to use rap to the level that GotG uses its music for it to become a potentially movie ruining issue for me, and I'd bet money (if I had any) on that not happening. Outside of that, its not that big a deal. I enjoyed Luke Cage even though its soundtrack made me mute it at times, and as a series its longer then the BP film will be. I'll endure the mild inconvenience easily, especially if the actual movie is as good as I think it will be.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I sure as fuck don't think Generic Popular Song #45675 was a commentary on Star Trek Beyond, and I don't think I've seen many movies where the songs are even connected, outside of musicals and things like Guardians of the Galaxy. The closest is playing the song Iron Man at the end credit of the Iron Man film, and from what I understand the song has nothing to do with the character. This isn't like James Gunn specifically putting certain songs in the GotG film.

I meant when there are original songs over the closing credits, which was implied by the Oscars comment and the context of this conversation, i.e. Black Panther's entire soundtrack is original to the film.

 

[kirk55555]

I meant when there are original songs over the closing credits, which was implied by the Oscars comment and the context of this conversation, i.e. Black Panther's entire soundtrack is original to the film.

Oh, yeah, I can understand using original songs for that reason. Is Black Panther's entire soundtrack actually original to the film? I thought it was just whatever rap songs they felt like licensing. That is...a worrying sign, if true. Certainly takes some of my excitement away from the movie, if only because that means I'll probably going to end up watching the whole movie muted with subtitles to avoid the garbage music. Well, that and the absolute last thing I'd associate with Black Panther is, well, music in general.

Well, I'll try to keep up hope for the movie. But, hey, even if is a miss there is still Avengers Infinity War and Ant-Man & The Wasp, which should both be great. I was hoping for three hits, but I'll take two. Still beats the DCEU.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Nope, the entire soundtrack is being produced by Kendrick Lamar, where he's writing and performing some of the songs as well. You would know that if you actually paid attention to some of the stuff that's been posted in this thread instead of having your knee jerk reactions regarding hip hop.

And there you go again, prejudging the music without listening to any of it (or at least I'm assuming you haven't bothered to listen to the two songs that have already been released).

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I would like a decent score for more than one of the MCU movies. With Henry Jackman's score for Captain America: The Winter Soldier--like the movie--being the far-and-away best of the MCU, its musical mix of the dissonant spy/intrigue to the repeating motifs of Cap and Bucky was a quality of music so absent from other MCU movies. The score is another "character" of the film, and should not be shortchanged with generic, forgettable action music (like The Avengers movies). That said, Ludwig Göransson composed the score for Black Panther, and being somewhat familiar with his work, one can hope he really adds heart to characters, so their story is not punctuated by one big, loud cue after another.

 

[Anwar]

I would like a decent score for more than one of the MCU movies.

Your Decent = Overshadows the people we're seeing on screen by bombarding us with music.

Anyways, the Thor Ragnarok and GOTG scores are already pretty awesome.