Black hole at center of Milky Way

[Outpost4]

Ice Queen is right. Black holes are just a theory. It's a theory with a lot of scientific justification that they very probably do exist, but they are still just theoretical. They aren't like Mars. We know that exists for sure. You can see it with the naked eye, and you can see it with reasonable detail with a backyard telescope. We've landed on it. We've driven across it. You can't do any of that with a black hole.

The new evidence, collected by German astronomers over 16 years, make it even more likely that one exists in the center of the Milky Way. For the observed movement of stars to have happened over that period of time, something with the mass of 4 million Suns that emits very little energy has to be there, and it has to exist in a very small space. A black hole makes the most sense. That is, unless something that makes even more sense comes along.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Black Holes

 

[Outpost4]

And those are pictures of regular matter surrounding something that is most likely a black hole. Almost by definition, you can't take a picture of a black hole itself.

Listen, I believe black holes do exist. I also believe in evolution, the Big Bang and that the dinosaurs were wiped out by a cataclysmic event caused by an extra-terrestrial object striking the Earth. But if you don't remain open minded to the possibility that something other than our current knowledge could be true, you're not following the scientific method.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Almost by definition, you can't take a picture of a black hole itself.

Just because it is black doesn't mean you can't take a picture of it or see it, are you or are you not capable of seeing black? put a black pen on a black piece of paper and it will blend in, if you take a picture you're still taking a picture of the pen. A black hole that has matter circling it allows the blackhole to be pinpointed, look at the dark are in the middle or take a photo of that area and you are without a shaddow of a doubt seeing and taking a picture of a black hole.
Just because something is 'Black' does not make it un-viewable or un-photographable.

 

[Outpost4]

Your analogies are false. They all involve regular matter. A black hole does not consist of any regular matter. A black hole isn't called black because it is like a black pen. It is called that because it allows no matter or energy to escape. It is theorized that if you could observe what was happening inside the event horizon of a black hole, it would actually be very bright, as matter and energy was being destroyed and emitting radiation.

What you are taking a picture of is the regular matter outside of the event horizon. But the black hole itself is inside the event horizon. You can't take a picture of it. You can't take a picture of something that emits no light or energy.

 

[Shaw]

Well, the funny part of all this is that I haven't advocated for anything other than keeping an open mind and actually learn what these theories say before forming an opinion (specially a negative one).

Jadzia believes... well, who knows. But there have been prominent scientists who rejected the idea of black holes. One name that pops to mind would be Einstein (for as many times as he is invoked by Jadzia here, he found the idea of black holes hard to believe).

But lets go even further... the idea of what a black hole is isn't restricted to General Relativity (for as much as Jadzia would have you believe that it is). The term black hole is used in a number of areas of physics and cosmology to describe effects on observable objects by something unobservable but has an apparent location.

It is sad that more people haven't taken the time to learn General Relativity... and I'm not talking about just the sexy stuff like black holes, I'm talking about the very basics of how gravity works AT ALL. Go back to the thought experiments that Einstein came up with before he and Hilbert raced to work out the final geometry.

It is sad when the little things like that get overlooked.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Your analogies are false. They all involve regular matter. A black hole does not consist of any regular matter. A black hole isn't called black because it is like a black pen. It is called that because it allows no matter or energy to escape. It is theorized that if you could observe what was happening inside the event horizon of a black hole, it would actually be very bright, as matter and energy was being destroyed and emitting radiation.

What you are taking a picture of is the regular matter outside of the event horizon. But the black hole itself is inside the event horizon. You can't take a picture of it. You can't take a picture of something that emits no light or energy.

Drill a hole in a wall and you can still see the hole even though the hole is a hole. The fact a black hole is creating a blank spot in space and matter circling the black hole allows you to pinpoint it allows you to see it and where it is. Black is not 'invisible' black is black and is still perceivable.

 

[Outpost4]

Still an argument involving regular matter. You keep talking about the results of a black hole. I will agree you can take a picture of that. I'm talking about something that exists outside of regular matter, in fact exists outside of our universe. You can't take a picture of that.

 

[Amaris]

Your analogies are false. They all involve regular matter. A black hole does not consist of any regular matter. A black hole isn't called black because it is like a black pen. It is called that because it allows no matter or energy to escape. It is theorized that if you could observe what was happening inside the event horizon of a black hole, it would actually be very bright, as matter and energy was being destroyed and emitting radiation.

What you are taking a picture of is the regular matter outside of the event horizon. But the black hole itself is inside the event horizon. You can't take a picture of it. You can't take a picture of something that emits no light or energy.

Drill a hole in a wall and you can still see the hole even though the hole is a hole. The fact a black hole is creating a blank spot in space and matter circling the black hole allows you to pinpoint it allows you to see it and where it is. Black is not 'invisible' black is black and is still perceivable.

Tachyon Shield, take a picture of the air and show it to me.
I want to see it.

J.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

one it will pay us a visit and swallow up the entire earth in one fell shwooop

No, not really. It's not going to swallow the entire galaxy or anything like that. Only the matter that actually gets close to it. Anything that's out of range is safe.

It's like a lion with its mouth open. Doesn't *reach out* and grab stuff, but whatever happens to get too close, is toast.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Tachyon Shield, take a picture of the air and show it to me.
I want to see it.

J.

Just look at any picture then, it's there therefore you can see it. Without air your vision would probably be less blurry.

 

[Outpost4]

I've got to agree with Tachyon Shield here, John, although his dig at you was totally unnecessary.

Anybody who's been in the desert on a hot day has seen air. You see it rippling on the horizon, distorted by heat. You can also see air on any day when the Sun is out. It's why the sky is blue.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I've got to agree with Tachyon Shield here, John, although his dig at you was totally unnecessary.

What dig? what the hell?

 

[Outpost4]

I've got to agree with Tachyon Shield here, John, although his dig at you was totally unnecessary.

What dig? what the hell?

Without air your vision would probably be less blurry.

I took this as TNZ disagreements leaking over into the regular board.

I must have been mistaken. I apologize.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I must have been mistaken. I apologize.

Yes you are mistaken.

Stand in a room and have the air sucked out and turned into a vaccuum and I have no doubt your vision would become clearer even if only ever so slightly ,due to lack of 'air'.

 

[Bill Morris]

I suppose that even if there were a so-called supermassive black hole out in open space between galaxies with nothing orbiting it to obstruct our view, it still wouldn't be seen as a black area among a field of background points of light, because it would mask itself by the bending light from anything behind it. The sun does that slightly, which can be observed during a total solar eclipse.

That's just theoretical. Actually, it would more likely to attract enough stray hydrogen from open space to become surrounded by swirling, superheated gas and put on a show, I would guess.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It's too bad we won't be alive in 3 billion years.

I'd love to see the effects of the collision of the Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy.

And who knows where the central black holes of the two barred spirals would end up in the resulting elliptical galaxy.