"Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of the U

[Gingerbread Demon]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

I'd agree

With the vast distances involved we are more likely to be contacted by automated probes and ships then any actual aliens. Things like the TET from Oblivion which is an AI out of control. That is the take I got from that movie, that it was basically a hugely evolved AI that had been roaming for who knows how long till it bumps into our tiny planet and gets killed for its troubles.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

I am an idealist, so I would like to think that we will somehow survive. Not all of us - just enough of us that so that we can for a little longer.

There is a line from the last Superman movie, where the disgraced general speaks of traveling across a great ocean of stars. I think the image is a powerful one. Imagine the largest ocean of our world - the Pacific Ocean - stretched across the immensity of space. There are so many "islands" in space, yet they are so far away. Even Alpha Centauri is an incredible distance away.

This is where I am now on the question, "Are we alone in the universe?". Unless by some miracle of us discovering life on the outer moons of our solar system, I don't see us being discovered by an alien intelligence, so I believe we will never know if there is life beyond Earth. Then the question becomes, can we create life beyond Earth by settling our system? It really depends on what our priorities are, doesn't it? Right now, most humans are coping with so many issues: poverty, conflict, sickness and disease, bigotry. I believe our civilization is ravaged by these named things and those which I haven't named, and that its vitality, its energy, is drained.

I do find it interesting that there is a barrier that prevents us from visiting other systems. If our universe is like the Matrix, as some believe, then the question becomes, why was that barrier created in the first place - why can nothing go faster than light? Is there something we aren't supposed to discover about our reality? In virtual reality, there are invisible barriers that prevent the visitor from traveling beyond an area. The visitor can see what lies beyond the barriers; however, unless they learned how to manipulate the reality to their will, the visitor can never get pass these barriers.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

I am an idealist, so I would like to think that we will somehow survive. Not all of us - just enough of us that so that we can for a little longer.

There is a line from the last Superman movie, where the disgraced general speaks of traveling across a great ocean of stars. I think the image is a powerful one. Imagine the largest ocean of our world - the Pacific Ocean - stretched across the immensity of space. There are so many "islands" in space, yet they are so far away. Even Alpha Centauri is an incredible distance away.

This is where I am now on the question, "Are we alone in the universe?". Unless by some miracle of us discovering life on the outer moons of our solar system, I don't see us being discovered by an alien intelligence, so I believe we will never know if there is life beyond Earth. Then the question becomes, can we create life beyond Earth by settling our system? It really depends on what our priorities are, doesn't it? Right now, most humans are coping with so many issues: poverty, conflict, sickness and disease, bigotry. I believe our civilization is ravaged by these named things and those which I haven't named, and that its vitality, its energy, is drained.

I do find it interesting that there is a barrier that prevents us from visiting other systems. If our universe is like the Matrix, as some believe, then the question becomes, why was that barrier created in the first place - why can nothing go faster than light? Is there something we aren't supposed to discover about our reality? In virtual reality, there are invisible barriers that prevent the visitor from traveling beyond an area. The visitor can see what lies beyond the barriers; however, unless they learned how to manipulate the reality to their will, the visitor can never get pass these barriers.

That's also covered in the movie "the 13th Floor" which I think is way better then The Matrix

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

I do find it interesting that there is a barrier that prevents us from visiting other systems.

It's not really a barrier. It's more like a critical inconvenience we aren't going to ever do something about. It's kind of like how I am currently out of chips but I still have a lot of dip but I don't feel like going to the store to get more chips so I'm probably going to wind up throwing out all this dip. My laziness isn't a barrier between me and the store, it's just the reason I'm not going to bother.

In virtual reality, there are invisible barriers that prevent the visitor from traveling beyond an area.

Well there's no such thing as virtual reality, but in simulated environments (e.g. videogames) those barriers are created in arbitrary locations beyond which the programmer hasn't bothered to put anything for the player to do, either because it would be a distraction from the objectives of the game, or because it's resource-intensive to put things in that region that aren't supposed to be used in the first place. Or both.

If Earth really is a simulation, the programmers have gone out of their way to populate the solar system with all kinds of random shit we'll never explore in detail and will never interact with, therefore it's a VERY inefficient simulation and a huge waste of computing resources. Maybe that's not an issue because their system is ridiculously powerful... but if that's the case, they could just as easily simulate other solar systems anyway.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

I do find it interesting that there is a barrier that prevents us from visiting other systems.

It's not really a barrier. It's more like a critical inconvenience we aren't going to ever do something about. It's kind of like how I am currently out of chips but I still have a lot of dip but I don't feel like going to the store to get more chips so I'm probably going to wind up throwing out all this dip. My laziness isn't a barrier between me and the store, it's just the reason I'm not going to bother.

In virtual reality, there are invisible barriers that prevent the visitor from traveling beyond an area.

Well there's no such thing as virtual reality, but in simulated environments (e.g. videogames) those barriers are created in arbitrary locations beyond which the programmer hasn't bothered to put anything for the player to do, either because it would be a distraction from the objectives of the game, or because it's resource-intensive to put things in that region that aren't supposed to be used in the first place. Or both.

If Earth really is a simulation, the programmers have gone out of their way to populate the solar system with all kinds of random shit we'll never explore in detail and will never interact with, therefore it's a VERY inefficient simulation and a huge waste of computing resources. Maybe that's not an issue because their system is ridiculously powerful... but if that's the case, they could just as easily simulate other solar systems anyway.

That's a valid point but regarding games some of us like to explore our games and break the map and go past the invisible walls. It's fun exploiting game maps..

Maybe one day we can do that in our solar system and beyond. lol

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

I do find it interesting that there is a barrier that prevents us from visiting other systems.

It's not really a barrier. It's more like a critical inconvenience we aren't going to ever do something about. It's kind of like how I am currently out of chips but I still have a lot of dip but I don't feel like going to the store to get more chips so I'm probably going to wind up throwing out all this dip. My laziness isn't a barrier between me and the store, it's just the reason I'm not going to bother.

In virtual reality, there are invisible barriers that prevent the visitor from traveling beyond an area.

Well there's no such thing as virtual reality, but in simulated environments (e.g. videogames) those barriers are created in arbitrary locations beyond which the programmer hasn't bothered to put anything for the player to do, either because it would be a distraction from the objectives of the game, or because it's resource-intensive to put things in that region that aren't supposed to be used in the first place. Or both.

If Earth really is a simulation, the programmers have gone out of their way to populate the solar system with all kinds of random shit we'll never explore in detail and will never interact with, therefore it's a VERY inefficient simulation and a huge waste of computing resources. Maybe that's not an issue because their system is ridiculously powerful... but if that's the case, they could just as easily simulate other solar systems anyway.

Excellent points. But really, the simulation programmers are just another way to say god did it and not nearly as interesting.

 

[Dryson]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

An advanced civilization would have the intelligence to understand that a biological life form would last maybe 100 years at best in a space exploration venture.

A metallic ambassador however would last two to five times longer depending upon how it was constructed. Unless the first biological intelligence we encounter is twenty light years or less away from Earth I would have to agree that AI would most likely be the first form of intelligence we encounter.

Just imagine one our of probes passing another probe that wasn't ours in space. Would anyone hear the communication taking place?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

An advanced civilization would have the intelligence to understand that a biological life form would last maybe 100 years at best in a space exploration venture.

A metallic ambassador however would last two to five times longer depending upon how it was constructed. Unless the first biological intelligence we encounter is twenty light years or less away from Earth I would have to agree that AI would most likely be the first form of intelligence we encounter.

Just imagine one our of probes passing another probe that wasn't ours in space. Would anyone hear the communication taking place?

I had a couple of random things pop into my head.

What about a solar observatory? If one was orbiting the Sun looking at Earth would we see things from 8 minutes in the past from the probe's POV? Could that kind of thing be useful to anyone?



Also on the nature of First Contact I suspect it won't be actual organic beings but AI probes or ships. Any species that clever would know organic bodies could not make the vast journeys without some way to extend life or long term procreation like a generation ship. Whether these machines will be intelligent enough to react in a civilized manner is another question or if they are just reactionary, reacting to their surroundings in a logical manner.

It would be interesting to see how well such a probe is programmed. What is it's order of business in the event of an actual off world contact?

 

[sojourner]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

An advanced civilization would have the intelligence to understand that a biological life form would last maybe 100 years at best in a space exploration venture.

A metallic ambassador however would last two to five times longer depending upon how it was constructed. Unless the first biological intelligence we encounter is twenty light years or less away from Earth I would have to agree that AI would most likely be the first form of intelligence we encounter.

Just imagine one our of probes passing another probe that wasn't ours in space. Would anyone hear the communication taking place?

I had a couple of random things pop into my head.


What about a solar observatory? If one was orbiting the Sun looking at Earth would we see things from 8 minutes in the past from the probe's POV? Could that kind of thing be useful to anyone?

No, because it will take you time to transmit that data back to earth.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

An advanced civilization would have the intelligence to understand that a biological life form would last maybe 100 years at best in a space exploration venture.

A metallic ambassador however would last two to five times longer depending upon how it was constructed. Unless the first biological intelligence we encounter is twenty light years or less away from Earth I would have to agree that AI would most likely be the first form of intelligence we encounter.

Just imagine one our of probes passing another probe that wasn't ours in space. Would anyone hear the communication taking place?

I had a couple of random things pop into my head.


What about a solar observatory? If one was orbiting the Sun looking at Earth would we see things from 8 minutes in the past from the probe's POV? Could that kind of thing be useful to anyone?

No, because it will take you time to transmit that data back to earth.

What about a device like the EM Drive pushing the signal instead of a ship?

 

[sojourner]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

That's called a "radio". The information still takes time to arrive. Speed of light and all that.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

That's called a "radio". The information still takes time to arrive. Speed of light and all that.

Ah ok...my mistake

 

[Lindley]

Re: "Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of t

Organic life evolves within specific environments. The problem is that most of the universe is not the right environment for organic life (as we know it). Even the idea that a planet is the best location to look for life is very organo-centric.

Evolution is not likely to create life that can exist in the majority of the universe. However, machines can be *designed* which can exist in those spaces. Maintenance and energy management over the long term is still an issue, but it's solvable.

If we figure out how to make a machine that is actually "alive" in some sense, and apply this to spacegoing machines, then that would be an ideal entity to explore the universe. It's not clear that true AI is anywhere near a reality, though.