News Billingsley: Why Star Trek: Enterprise Failed

[Farscape One]

Another point to consider is length of time it takes to produce an episode now vs. the Berman era.

As an example, DISCOVERY season 1 took 10 months to film. And it had 14 episodes. In the Berman era, 26 episodes were done in that time. That's a MAJOR difference.

I use that season as an example because it was well before COVID, so that can't be used as an excuse.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if we are going to have shorter seasons, it shouldn't take nearly a full year to film it.

Say what you will about practical effects and less CGI, it was FAR easier to shoot episodes. And frankly... looked better.

 

[fireproof78]

I mean, less CGI is fine, but I still don't want 26 episodes. It was a dice roll every single time and didn't assure enjoyment. I at least enjoy almost all the episodes of DSC right now, vs. skipping well over half of ENT or VOY.

 

[Farscape One]

Ok, maybe 26 can be too much. Somewhere in the middle... say, 20.

 

[cooleddie74]

Hell, DSC can't do 15 or even fewer without failing to stick the landing. PIC's first season had just 10 episodes and the season finale was largely a mess.

 

[Paul755]

One of the problems I’ve had with both Disco and Picard is that the finales felt like they were trying to wrap up too many storylines.

it’s one thing for DS9 to do one off episodes like “The Magnificent Ferengi” when you have 23-25 other episodes to get stuff in. Picard can’t waste and hour on an Elnor origin story (then hardly use him) and still think they can wrap things up without the finale being too full.

 

[fireproof78]

One of the problems I’ve had with both Disco and Picard is that the finales felt like they were trying to wrap up too many storylines.

it’s one thing for DS9 to do one off episodes like “The Magnificent Ferengi” when you have 23-25 other episodes to get stuff in. Picard can’t waste and hour on an Elnor origin story (then hardly use him) and still think they can wrap things up without the finale being too full.

I tend to agree. I think that those shows tend to put out several threads and then attempt to tie them all back. Which, honestly, was really too much for a shorter season and a more serialized plot. Elements that could have benefited from either another season's focus, or be left aside altogether,

Which, honestly, is what I want. I want stories to be trimmed where things that really are not a part of the focus to be trimmed out completely. I understand the appeal of episodic and that certainly has its place, and perhaps SNW will demonstrated where it can fit in in the current productions. But, with shows like Discovery and Picard I think that the adage "less is more" is spot on as a description. That instead of cramming everything in we need to let the season unfold.

Star Trek did the episodic thing already. I want something different.

 

[Amasov]

I tend to agree. I think that those shows tend to put out several threads and then attempt to tie them all back. Which, honestly, was really too much for a shorter season and a more serialized plot. Elements that could have benefited from either another season's focus, or be left aside altogether,

Which, honestly, is what I want. I want stories to be trimmed where things that really are not a part of the focus to be trimmed out completely. I understand the appeal of episodic and that certainly has its place, and perhaps SNW will demonstrated where it can fit in in the current productions. But, with shows like Discovery and Picard I think that the adage "less is more" is spot on as a description. That instead of cramming everything in we need to let the season unfold.

Star Trek did the episodic thing already. I want something different.

That was part of my problem with Discovery this season. They were telling too many stories at once and many of which didn't relate to each other in the slightest.

 

[Paul755]

The best format to follow (IMO) is Enterprise S4, minus the finale of course.

You have the season long thread of starting the Federation, mixed in with 2-3 episode “arc” stories (Vulcan restoration, Klingon ridges, Soong/Augments, Terra Prime, etc) and stand alones. And everything gets wrapped up.

 

[fireproof78]

My only big sticking point is does stuff matter? Episodic trends to forget small details and leave character consequences behind. Serialized may not land it but I at least feel some measure of weight.

 

[Paul755]

I dunno. DS9 S1 and S2 was mostly episodic and you could see character growth and consequences stick around thru the run.

 

[cooleddie74]

And Seasons 3 through 7.

I like good character development but it's a balancing act. On the one hand most Trek characters deserve more development than TOS Chekov, Travis Mayweather or Bryce on DSC but on the other I don't need a four-page Wiki entry on each character after just the first few episodes they're in.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno. DS9 S1 and S2 was mostly episodic and you could see character growth and consequences stick around thru the run.

It can be done but it generally isn't. MASH did it too but not all shows do and I'm not going to count on that as a possibility because the top tier shows do it. DS9 is known as the exception so using it as an example is not inspiring.

 

[Paul755]

Well S3-7 was far more serialized so they were able to explore the characters even more. More stuff developed and carried over. Like the slow build Miles/Julian friendship.

 

[Takeru]

Billingsley is wrong about franchise fatigue because there's no such thing. Look at how much content the Law & Order and JAG/NCIS franchises have been pumping out often running 3 shows (and when Trial by Jury was in 4!) concurrently and both are still going strong. Audiences don't get fatigued after a certain number of years of if they get too many episodes per year, they stop watching when what's offered doesn't appeal to them, sometimes that's after episode 5 and sometimes after episode 700.

I also disagree that Enterprise failed, a failure doesn't get 4 seasons, bluray releases and is available for streaming worldwide. That it was comparatively less successful than other shows means nothing because it was also more successful than many other shows.

Manny Coto made the show what it should have been from the start. I believe that, had that been done from the outset, the show would have lasted 7 years.

No way, it's more likely it would have ended after season 1 or 2. Under Coto Enterprise lost whatever identity it had and became nothing more than TOS and TNG callbacks and references.

 

[fireproof78]

Well S3-7 was far more serialized so they were able to explore the characters even more. More stuff developed and carried over. Like the slow build Miles/Julian friendship.

Again, DS9 is considered top tier so the idea that a new episodic show will be like that is I guess extremely optimistic.

 

[FederationHistorian]

No way, it's more likely it would have ended after season 1 or 2. Under Coto Enterprise lost whatever identity it had and became nothing more than TOS and TNG callbacks and references.

Let’s not act like there was no effort of fan service and call backs in S1, 2 or 3, or attempts to fan service and callbacks. ENT brought in Andorians, Tellarites, Malurians and Tholians from TOS. And the Nausicaans, Ferengi & Borg from TNG. And originally in S3, Archer was supposed to torture an Orion, not an Osaarian. Which not only would have had implications as being the origins of first contact between humans and one of the Trek legacy species, but also that the Denobulans would have been familiar with the Orions too, long before humans encountered them.

The difference between Coto’s ENT and ENT S1 & 2 is that Coto was focused on building towards the origins of the Federation, which had great success. While S 1 & 2 were more about the worldbuilding during Earth’s first foray into deep space, which had limited success. Since unlike Coto, S1 & 2 would not put the TCW arc behind them, instead choosing to revisit it. The TCW stuff should have been dropped after the “Shockwave” two parter, and the drama among the crew like what was seen in “Harbinger” should have reared its head earlier. Particularly if the goal was to make ENT like other hour long dramas at the time.

 

[dupersuper]

My only big sticking point is does stuff matter?

A good story/episode is a good story/episode. I don't get this obsession people have with "does it matter?" It's the same as the awful term used far too often: filler episode.

 

[fireproof78]

A good story/episode is a good story/episode. I don't get this obsession people have with "does it matter?" It's the same as the awful term used far too often: filler episode.

When its big emotional moments then yes I want it to matter. That characters are having lives not episodes.

 

[valkyrie013]

You have as many episodes as it takes to tell the story. Why I liked the approach of S4 Enterprise, and even Babylon 5 in that regard.
The episodes are still serialized in that each episode has consequences for the bigger arc/picture, crew is affected, ship is damaged, and not repaired next episode. But the story told out in the 2-3-4 episodes are told and done, and move on to the next story.
Babylon 5 did this in that they didn't let questions linger to long, the asked questions, gave answers 2-3-4 episodes along, then asked new questions, repeat ad nausieum. You had the bigger arcs of Londo's decent into darkness, or Gkar's ascent to prophet. but could still watch individual episodes.

Lets take discover, s3 There in the future. Now the story over arch of the season should have been were in the future, lets get settled in, find the federation, see whats new. They kind of did that, but was kind of a mess, The reason for the Burn could have lingered for past this season, or just have been It happened, no big mystery, everybody knows why, just accept and move on.

So just basically, you write a story, you sit down to script it out, see how many episodes it would take to flesh it out, then thats your episode count. If its short, add a filler episode or 2 and thats your season. Move on.

 

[MacLeod]

Some of the questions in B5 didn't get answers in the same season we had to wait i.e. Why did the Minbari surrender at the Battle of the Line. What B5 did right largely in part because it was written largely by one person is that it was mapped out, with trap doors for characters to come and possible come back. Where some shows fail is that they have no idea of how they want to end the overall story.

The issue with fans of anything is that we all want different things, for me ENT esp in S1-2 just contuned to do what TNG and VOY had done before, often times not as good so I was ready for something different which we eventually got in S3-4. The title song was the least of ENT issues and it really wasn't an issue .