Biggest Plot Hole?

[Blueicus]

The thing about the first Xindi weapon was that perhaps it was a failed attack... they thought the power yield was enough to destroy the planet but it didn't, or that the generator was damaged due to some technobabble and wasn't working at 100%. Considering that the Xindi weapon survived in Twilight but the first weapon self destructed may indicate that the attacker knew it failed and activated a failsafe to prevent it from being captured.

Of course, I may also have forgotten the script and the council did mention it just being a test.

 

[Anwar]

There was some mention (I think) over how they had to test the weapon on Earth to get some valuable data for the final version, and how it had to be Earth and only Earth.

They thought they were safe in the Expanse since no one knew who they were or where they were. Until Future Guy messed it all up by telling Archer.

 

[Dorothy_Zbornak]

DeafPoet said:

Dorothy_Zbornak said:
VOY "The Voyager Conspiracy" - they never explained what happened to the Caretaker array's power source or why it got tractored into subspace.

Did it get tractored into subspace? I think you're missing the point of the episode.

They had an image capture from the visual scanners showing the reactor being tractored into subspace.

 

[DWF]

Forbin said:
Relics.

The Enterprise was trapped in the Dyson sphere unable to break away from the sun (IIRC), but when the Jenolan got the door open, they just turned around and left.

Then of course they beamed Scotty and Geordi through the Jenolan's shields and torpedoed the Jenolan in one shot with its shields up

Picard put the ship into an orbit around the sun that stopped them from falling into it the orbit broughtthem back around to the enterance.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IMHO, nothing in "The Voyager Conspiracy" can be taken at face value, since Seven was clearly teetering on the edge of being batshit insane for much of it.

As for "All Good Things": AFAIK, the Pasteur started out with its own tachyon beam, but when it was destroyed by the Klingons, the future Enterprise-D took up the slack and also fired one of its own. Thus it is not a goof to have all three tachyon beams coming from an Enterprise.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Replicators aren't a magical cure-all for everything. They need energy, maintenance and bulk matter to operate.

The Feds have solved the energy problem with their matter/anti-matter-dilithium crystal whatzit. If they can power FTL starships and transporters, the amount of energy consumed by a simple little replicator should be nothing by comparison.

And there's plenty of matter in the universe. That's the least of anyone's concerns. Just corral a few asteroids that nobody was using and you're all set.

The notion that the Feds have inifinite energy to power FTL spaceships, replicators and transporters, which in turn means no more need for money, is an underlying premise of Star Trek. Regardless of whether you like these notions, they are the reason you can have Star Trek in the first place.

Course, you can also have a more capitalistic Star Trek and that's ok. Replicators had not been invented by Kirk's time, and just as you'd expect, there were more mentions of people getting paychecks, capitalistically motivated folks like Cyrano Jones, and the like. That's not nearly so much in evidence in the 24th C. Only the Ferengi practice capitalism, and that's for cultural reasons.

 

[amdmiami]

Well if there is no money, then what motivates people to do jobs? Why would you want to fly around space with the potential of being killed, when you could just stay on Earth and have anything you want.

 

[DeafPoet]

Dorothy_Zbornak said:

DeafPoet said:

Dorothy_Zbornak said:
VOY "The Voyager Conspiracy" - they never explained what happened to the Caretaker array's power source or why it got tractored into subspace.

Did it get tractored into subspace? I think you're missing the point of the episode.

They had an image capture from the visual scanners showing the reactor being tractored into subspace.

IIRC, there was an image of something indeterminate that Seven said was some tractoring shenanigans. But since the whole plot of that episode hinges on the fact that everything coming out of Seven's mouth is bullshit, I don't think this qualifies as a plot hole.

 

[Anwar]

amdmiami said:
Well if there is no money, then what motivates people to do jobs? Why would you want to fly around space with the potential of being killed, when you could just stay on Earth and have anything you want.

To ease the mass boredom we'd likely get if we could just get anything at a push of a button.

THey probably figured it was a good idea to keep people doing work and flying starships after replicators revolutionized society so we didn't become a bunch of fat guys who need anti-gravity harnesses to get around.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Voyager - The premise was good, the set-up for the first few episodes was good, and then hey presto, we have a fully-integrated crew with few or no issues? What happened there?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Temis the Vorta said:
The Feds have solved the energy problem with their matter/anti-matter-dilithium crystal whatzit.

Dilithium crystals don't last forever.

The notion that the Feds have inifinite energy to power FTL spaceships, replicators and transporters, which in turn means no more need for money, is an underlying premise of Star Trek. Regardless of whether you like these notions, they are the reason you can have Star Trek in the first place.

You forgot my other point: not everybody has, or wants, a replicator. How do you explain that? Robert Picard and family were doing well even without them. You don't think it was from selling Chateau Picard wine?

And of course there's the biggest plot hole of all (as has already been pointed out): Without money, there is simply no motivation to work. Don't even try to tell me seriously that people would just work "to better themselves" (as Picard always said). People don't do that. It's not in human nature. Work is for benefit, and that's all it's for. If you were provided everything you needed or wanted for free, would you work? Bear in mind that any answer other than "no" would be a lie.

 

[Ethros]

amdmiami said:
Well if there is no money, then what motivates people to do jobs? Why would you want to fly around space with the potential of being killed, when you could just stay on Earth and have anything you want.

Because 24th century humans aren't the same as the humans of today.
As Picard said (to the effect of) "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the drivng force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity"

Wealth is no longer a driving force; knowledge is. Hence Starleet

 

[Galactic Alignment]

Ethros said:Because 24th century humans aren't the same as the humans of today.

That's the crux of it. We're looking at this through the ideas of early 21st century people in an Anglophone capitalist culture. Let's not be ethnocentric here - if there's anything that cultural anthropology has taught us, it's that there is immense variation here on Earth in terms of how people view the world and what they value.

 

[FordSVT]

DWF said:

Forbin said:
Relics.

The Enterprise was trapped in the Dyson sphere unable to break away from the sun (IIRC), but when the Jenolan got the door open, they just turned around and left.

Then of course they beamed Scotty and Geordi through the Jenolan's shields and torpedoed the Jenolan in one shot with its shields up

Picard put the ship into an orbit around the sun that stopped them from falling into it the orbit brought them back around to the enterance.

We've seen people beam through shields before, but they usually can't because the person behind the shields doesn't want them to. We've seen them use "holes" in shields, lapses in shield power due to "energy cycles" and shield frequencies being exploited. So I don't see any reason why two of the best engineers Starfleet has ever produced couldn't figure out a way to beam through the shields of a century old ship.

As for the simplicity of the Jenoan's destruction, I chalk it up to the fact that it was a small, 80 year old ship with barely enough power for life support who's shields had already been pushed to the breaking point by the force of the Sphere's bay doors. A torpedo would cut through that like a hot knife through butter. Heck, much longer and the bay doors themselves would have crushed the ship.

 

[Nebusj]

Babaganoosh said:
And of course there's the biggest plot hole of all (as has already been pointed out): Without money, there is simply no motivation to work. Don't even try to tell me seriously that people would just work "to better themselves" (as Picard always said). People don't do that. It's not in human nature. Work is for benefit, and that's all it's for. If you were provided everything you needed or wanted for free, would you work? Bear in mind that any answer other than "no" would be a lie.

``Would you work?'' is not the question. The question is, ``What work would you do?'' That is, what are the things you would do to fill your day if there were no particular need to earn money to afford the necessities and the common pleasures of life?

Well, for most people, they'd choose to do creative, imaginative, personally challenging and interesting things. Things they love, like making the perfect wine. Things that excite them, like building new continents. Things that they couldn't do if they stayed home, like voyaging to never-before-explored planets.

Is everything you do solely for the money of it? Bear in mind that any answer other than ``no'' is necessarily a lie. So as you do things for reasons other than the promise of money, why do you do them?

 

[Blueicus]

In some ways it's like having a planet full of young retirees, they have all the money they need for the rest of their life, now what do they do? Everybody has their own wants for what they do then.

 

[Dorothy_Zbornak]

Rattrap 64 said:

Ethros said:Because 24th century humans aren't the same as the humans of today.

That's the crux of it. We're looking at this through the ideas of early 21st century people in an Anglophone capitalist culture. Let's not be ethnocentric here - if there's anything that cultural anthropology has taught us, it's that there is immense variation here on Earth in terms of how people view the world and what they value.

Well said.

And think of it...a world of the 23rd/24th centuries where you can have any material object, or visit any place on Earth or in the Federation...after a while that would get very, very boring and you would want to do *something* with your life.

Work in the Federation doesn't necessarily equate shoveling gravel...going to university count count, volunteering with animals or children could count, making art, making music. Anything would count that contributes to society.

And perhaps there does exist a minority of vapid layabouts who don't contribute and are carried by those that do, but this isn't a big deal in the face of the surplus of wealth and resources the Federation offers.

And for those people we see tending bar, running a coffee kiosk or whatever--yes, they *want* to do exactly that. Some people like those positions involving a lot of light social interaction. Not everyone wants to be nor needs to be a noble Starfleet officer, accomplished diplomat or noted vineyard owner to feel successful in life.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

It becomes a plot hole when they change the dates according to the needs of, well, the plot. Like the age of the station. I don't remember correctly, but they state one thing early in the series, then change it so they can make Dukat prefect and station commander when Kira was just a little girl.

Now if I remember it wrong, please correct me.

 

[FordSVT]

CommanderRaytas said:
It becomes a plot hole when they change the dates according to the needs of, well, the plot. Like the age of the station. I don't remember correctly, but they state one thing early in the series, then change it so they can make Dukat prefect and station commander when Kira was just a little girl.

Now if I remember it wrong, please correct me.

That would be a continuity error, not a plot hole.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Why? I honestly don't get the difference, then.