Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

[Melakon]

That would probably work for a 2-parter, after the "last time on The Addams Family..." recap.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's Reading Rainbow compared to what happened on Hannibal this year.

 

[R. Star]

Someone (not Anwar) even accused me of hating Voyager once and being a basher because I posted something sarcastic.

Psh, you love Voyager more than any two other fans.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Don't you mean "more than its two other fans"?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Creepiest fandance ever.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm waiting for the Zoe Saldana reprise of Nimbus III. I'm looking forward to what the underwear shriekers will have to say about that.

 

[R. Star]

Don't you mean "more than its two other fans"?

As much as I rip into Voyager, I do enjoy the show. I just wish it was better!

 

[Stoo]

I nitpick sometimes, and I think the show could have done much more with its premise, but I've enjoyed the show and have been watching loads of episodes back to back on Netflix lately. I'd say I'm a fan.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which character do you have a tattoo of?

You can easily figure out how much of a fan someone is, by who they have a tattoo of, where the tattoo is and how large the tattoo is.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I knew Q was only in that bathtub because he was cosplaying Chaktoay in his little Q'ey heart.

 

[Anwar]

What person A defines as something being trashed, person B defines as critisim. It is possible to enjoy something yet feel that it was lacking in parts.

But that's not how it is with VOY. When anyone "criticizes" it all they do is point out the bad and never mention the good. That's not critique, it's just trashing something.

And no, "It should've been serialized" or "These characters should've been more!" are not critiques, they're just more mudslinging.

Well, you can point a finger at me for saying Chakotay could've and should've been a hell of a lot more than Janeway's lapdog. And akoochimoya, my indigenous ass, and all that.

Doesn't mean I don't see Voyager's good points.

All it means is that I really loathe what they did to one character.

That was partially because Beltran was a b*tch on set and squandered any chances he was given to do anything so they stopped caring.

Also, it was because they didn't do a good enough job making him that dissimilar from Janeway in the first place and were afraid of the underlying sexism of the premise (A weak woman captain who has to compromise with terrorists).

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's weird how very little any Maquis issues got brought up. You would think that it was the difference between two mainstream political parties, not one group labeled terrorists by another group.

I'm grateful though that we didn't have to put up with Chakotay being all repentant of his Maquis past. That would have been nauseating.

 

[teya]

But that's not how it is with VOY. When anyone "criticizes" it all they do is point out the bad and never mention the good. That's not critique, it's just trashing something.

And no, "It should've been serialized" or "These characters should've been more!" are not critiques, they're just more mudslinging.

Well, you can point a finger at me for saying Chakotay could've and should've been a hell of a lot more than Janeway's lapdog. And akoochimoya, my indigenous ass, and all that.

Doesn't mean I don't see Voyager's good points.

All it means is that I really loathe what they did to one character.

That was partially because Beltran was a b*tch on set and squandered any chances he was given to do anything so they stopped caring.

Also, it was because they didn't do a good enough job making him that dissimilar from Janeway in the first place and were afraid of the underlying sexism of the premise (A weak woman captain who has to compromise with terrorists).

Maybe it was because they created a stereotypical Indian based on some New Age impression of what Indians are...

But, wait... Did you just criticize Voyager? Are you a basher?

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Maybe it was because they created a stereotypical Indian based on some New Age impression of what Indians are...

Native Americans. Indians are from India.

--Sran

 

[Guy Gardener]

Indianaians doesn't have anything to do with this, but it's a weird word to get your mouth all the way around without practice.

 

[Melakon]

What do people from Indiana call themselves?

Indianans?
Indianians?
Indiananites?

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Hoosiers. I'm from Indiana.

--Sran

 

[Anwar]

Well, you can point a finger at me for saying Chakotay could've and should've been a hell of a lot more than Janeway's lapdog. And akoochimoya, my indigenous ass, and all that.

Doesn't mean I don't see Voyager's good points.

All it means is that I really loathe what they did to one character.

That was partially because Beltran was a b*tch on set and squandered any chances he was given to do anything so they stopped caring.

Also, it was because they didn't do a good enough job making him that dissimilar from Janeway in the first place and were afraid of the underlying sexism of the premise (A weak woman captain who has to compromise with terrorists).

Maybe it was because they created a stereotypical Indian based on some New Age impression of what Indians are...

But, wait... Did you just criticize Voyager? Are you a basher?

They shouldn't have bothered with any of the Native Indian stuff and not let his ethnicity influence the character so much.

And I'll be honest, I've believed that VOY had an incomplete premise and that they should've just done what Berman wanted to do and wait until DS9 was done to do VOY. Would've given them more time to iron out the kinks.

 

[Lynx]

But that's not how it is with VOY. When anyone "criticizes" it all they do is point out the bad and never mention the good. That's not critique, it's just trashing something.

And no, "It should've been serialized" or "These characters should've been more!" are not critiques, they're just more mudslinging.

Well, you can point a finger at me for saying Chakotay could've and should've been a hell of a lot more than Janeway's lapdog. And akoochimoya, my indigenous ass, and all that.

Doesn't mean I don't see Voyager's good points.

All it means is that I really loathe what they did to one character.

That was partially because Beltran was a b*tch on set and squandered any chances he was given to do anything so they stopped caring.

Also, it was because they didn't do a good enough job making him that dissimilar from Janeway in the first place and were afraid of the underlying sexism of the premise (A weak woman captain who has to compromise with terrorists).

I think that it was the other way around. Beltran maybe did become "a b*tch on set" in the last 2-3 seasons because they didn't care about the character, shoving Chakotay more and more in the background. I can understand that he was upset about that.

As for "compromising with terrorists", well, I don't see the Maquis as "terrorists". They remind me more about the Polish "Armia Krajowa" in WWII than Al Quaeda. Besides that, the compromise with the Maquis was logic. They just had to cooperate to get home.

I agree with Teya about Chakotay's heritage. That could have been handled much better.

And I actually loathe what they did to another character as well.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Well, you can point a finger at me for saying Chakotay could've and should've been a hell of a lot more than Janeway's lapdog. And akoochimoya, my indigenous ass, and all that.

Doesn't mean I don't see Voyager's good points.

All it means is that I really loathe what they did to one character.

That was partially because Beltran was a b*tch on set and squandered any chances he was given to do anything so they stopped caring.

Also, it was because they didn't do a good enough job making him that dissimilar from Janeway in the first place and were afraid of the underlying sexism of the premise (A weak woman captain who has to compromise with terrorists).

I think that it was the other way around. Beltran maybe did become "a b*tch on set" in the last 2-3 seasons because they didn't care about the character, shoving Chakotay more and more in the background. I can understand that he was upset about that.

Season ONE:

Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o98ULd9T0tk[/yt]