Better Call Saul, the TV series

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Temis the Vorta, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Indeed. I love a good slow burn and Vince Gilligan excels at it.
     
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  2. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Well, that was quite the roller coaster in the final two acts.

    Everything was going Jimmy's way right up until he was asked an abstract, personal question, one that he hadn't anticipated and couldn't easily hustle his way through with easily memorized facts and fancy speech. He called it a "weird-ass" question but it was simply about sincerity. I don't think Jimmy's unwillingness to talk about Chuck sunk him like Kim suspected, but she also didn't hear how Jimmy answered that question, how he tried to bluff his way through it after he was blatantly gobsmacked by it.

    And from there, everything went straight to shit. The resulting fight was so ugly and so personal for both of them that I was convinced that this was it for the two of them, despite another successful con the previous day. I was genuinely surprised when Kim reached out with an olive branch and prodded Jimmy about whether he still wanted to practice law. After the deep-cutting things they said about each other, I don't see how they can walk back from that fight or why Kim would even want to. Is the thrill of the con with Jimmy that strong or was there something else that I missed?

    As for Werner, I actually thought he committed suicide. For Mike's sake, that would've probably been the better result. Unless Mike catches up to Werner and fast, I don't see how Mike can possibly face Gus with Werner's escape. Hell, even with Werner contained (or neutralized), I don't see how Mike can face him.

    But then, Gus has his own problems with Lalo, pardon the pun, ruffling feathers as Hector recovers from his stroke. After a quick look-up at the Breaking Bad Wikia, I see that Lalo is the other name Saul mentions to Walt and Jesse right after they kidnap him. The pieces are coming together...

    Coming back to the beginning, I loved the cold opening. Kim and Jimmy are busy enjoying the thrill of the con, while us viewers get the thrill of figuring out the purpose of the con. I have to confess that I was very slow on the uptake. Despite the events of the rest episode, I hope we get another of one of those again. Also, it was nice to see Marceline Hugot from The Leftovers pop up, especially since I just watched the whole show for the first time.
     
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  3. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    "The University Of American Samoa ... go Land Crabs!"

    As soon as she asked, I expected - as they did - for the obvious. Oh dear...

    Love the fact Hector's bell has an origin story.

    Mike's not going to have a good day.

    Another terrific episode. Hurry up next week!
     
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  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    I liked the way all Jimmy's anxiety about his situation with Kim came to the surface. "Good enough to sleep with but not good enough to have an office together? Just like to sometimes roll around in the dirt and have fun with Slippin Jimmy!" A combination of his anxieties about Kim and his pent up anger about Chuck, even quoting him verbatim to describe Kim's feelings about him.

    Gus is going to see this as Mike's error, but it's not too late to contain the situation. Unfortunately the situation might require a 'full measure' to correct. Because now, even if they catch him, Werner will know exactly where they are digging.

    I don't think Mike will have trouble confronting Gus. We know that Gus in the long run isn't too angry at Mike. Mike's not going to make excuses, just frankly own up to the mistake, which Gus will respect, despite his anger.
     
  5. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm going to disagree a bit here. I think Kim was dead on. When the board members used the words "meaning" and "inspiration" I just knew they were waiting for him to wax poetic about Chuck, who seems to be a God in the local law community. I also knew he wasn't going to, and I get why. I know from personal experience you don't go out of your way to reminisce about dead relatives you shared that much animosity with when they were alive.
     
  6. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That fight between Jimmy and Kim was just horrible. She seems to hoping for the relationship to continue but I'm just not sure. :(

    The con at the start was so much fun though.
     
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  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    We get a reveal here into Jimmy’s psyche. He replaced Chuck with Kim as the social better he is molding himself to prove himself worthy of.

    Is Kim really going to dive in the deep end at get more than her feet wet, be a real criminal and not a tourist? The way she asked if he still wanted to be a lawyer seemed like she had a calculated plan.
     
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  8. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    After sleeping on it and reading the A.V. Club review, I see how I misread the scene a bit. I do see the lack of mentioning Chuck hurting Jimmy, but I also maintain that his fumbled, insincere response about what the law means to him was his death blow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  9. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe it's a combination of both? Maybe if the fumbled, insincere response had been about his admiration for Chuck the board might not have come to a "No" vote so quickly? :shrug:

    Because, let's face it: Jimmy can never tell them the real reason he likes being a lawyer, which is for him arguing a case and winning it gives him the same thrill as running a successful scam. It's never going to be a noble calling for him.
     
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  10. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Jimmy's response to "What does the law mean to you?" certainly got off to an awkward start. You can imagine if they'd asked Chuck that question - he'd have become misty eyed and waxed lyrical for hours. But of course, as Admiral2 points out, Jimmy can't tell his *real* reasons, so he fumbles through it. It was enough to raise a slight alarm if you were already suspect of Jimmy, as some on the panel were likely to have been.

    But when asked the final question, we all thought Chuck. So did the panel. Everyone did except Jimmy. Go Land Crabs? I mean come on. Jimmy said last season Chuck had made the careers of half the Bar Association. The last two questions were clearly fishing for a mention of Chuck. You could see the brief but bemused reaction of the lawyer who asked.

    Not mentioning Chuck was incredibly conspicuous. Kim of course naturally assumed he'd talked about Chuck at the hearing. It was the final nail in the coffin. Jimmy's tragedy in this instance is he can't see the glaringly obvious even when everyone else can.
     
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  11. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Yep. Couldn't get out of the way of his own pride and disgust for his brother. He plays a good chess game, but he sometimes misses the most obvious moves for an easy win.
     
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  12. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t see how he can win an appeal when he’s confronted one of the bar members like that, his only hope is to roll with it, to make out he was so upset because he felt like he’d let Chuck down, hell he could even spin it into a whole “I’ve been hiding from how much my brother meant to me and how much I’m hurting over his death and now I feel like I’ve let him down again.” Throw in some tears and it might work. Let’s be honest there is some truth to that, he’s ignoring it but he is grieving, even if he doesn’t realise he is.

    The argument was amazing, a slow motion car crash made all the worse by the fact that you can see both sides of it (though I’d lean more towards Kim as I think most would, it’s easy to see why Jimmy feels like he’s just Kim’s bit of rough).

    Mike’s going to have to kill Werner now isn’t he :( can’t say he didn’t give the guy every chance. I kinda hope he gets away, but you’re not telling me Gus doesn’t have the reach to have someone in Europe taken out so I don’t know how this will resolve itself other than Werner ending up in a shallow grave or a barrel of acid.

    I’m not always a fan of retrofitting stories to give random objects specific meaning, but damn if the story behind the bell wasn’t creepy as fuck!

    The con at the start was fun. I really hope that isn’t the last time we see Jimmy and Kim in action.
     
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  13. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm no expert on the law, but wouldn't it be easier for Jimmy to try to get another law license under the Saul Goodman persona than to try to appeal the decision on the Jimmy McGill case? Like I said, I'm by no means an expert (or close to it) on the law, but maybe Kim thought of something when Jimmy mentioned that all of his cell phone clients knew him as Saul Goodman.

    The Mesa Verde con at the beginning was pretty well done, so I can see them maybe pulling a similar con on the University of American Samoa to change the name on Jimmy's law degree. Surely the lawyers you present yourself to to file for a law license are different from the ones you appeal to.
     
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  14. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    That dovetails nicely into a point that I've been pondering for awhile now: Jimmy is clearly practicing law as Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad (I forget if we ever saw any court scenes), so how did go from Jimmy McGill to Saul Goodman on a lawful level? I never thought it would be as simple as changing his name, and even if his cell phone clientèle knows by that name, Jimmy wasn't going to simply change it to that unless he had a strong reason to do so. So I think you're right that the next step is conning a university (University of American Samoa or otherwise, did we get a close look at his degrees in Breaking Bad?) into giving him a degree with the name Saul Goodman.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  15. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    In that scene I was waiting for Jimmy to start quoting Chuck about the law being sacred. Like, using Chuck's speech about why Jimmy isn't a real lawyer to get back his right to practice law.

    Did Jimmy ever legally change his name or did he just start a business called 'Saul Goodman and Associates'? In Breaking Bad, he says "My real name is McGill", he didn't say "My original name" or anything to suggest he definitely changed his legal name.
     
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  16. Push The Button

    Push The Button Commodore Commodore

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    So does Mike kill Werner, or the entire crew? Or does he find some third option that Gus will accept? Then again, no half-measures.
     
  17. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    There's still no reason for Gus wanting the whole crew dead, they might have a (very) rough idea of where they are given the trip to the strip club, but on the whole they know no details. Werner though is going to have very specific knowledge and I don't see how he doesn't wind up dead, unless Mike lies to Gus and says he killed him.
     
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  18. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, don't see Werner making it out alive. We shall find out tomorrow!
     
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  19. Push The Button

    Push The Button Commodore Commodore

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    Tonight’s episode description, from the AMC website:

    “..Mike is forced to make a difficult decision.”
     
  20. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    Yep. I'm thinking it is bye-bye Werner.