Best TV Show Ever Comes to DVD End of April

[Star Wolf]

A couple of years ago there was a cable channel that was showing reruns of both hill street blues and LA law

Both of them are on my list of favorite shows of all-time. I made it a point to re-watch both

That being said, while Hill Street blues still holds up LA law is incredibly dated, both in terms of the fashions and some of the topical references

The entire run? I remember NUVO, must have been Lt Calletano and Jesus Martinez that caught their market niche screen, was showing the first couple of seasons only.

 

[ToddPence]

These people act as if Shout Factory doesn't have to deal with music publishing companies or with the individuals that own the music used in many of the older shows,

Well, in the first place, none of the instances I cited above had anything to do with music related issues. One of them dealt with an incompetent video transfer, and others with Shout offering inferior quality episodes on a set after being deceitful and dishonest aforehand as to the quality of those episodes.

So they sit on their bums and complain about how they've been betrayed by Shout Factory and other home video companies, when in certain cases like that of the (IMHO) non-debacle centered around the music of The Fugitive DVD sets (Season 2 & 3) being replaced by new music, they really should be going after the rights holder companies/individuals that control said music pieces and giving them a piece of their minds and also telling them to be not so greedy (the same should also go with the executives at the studios as well, and they should also go after the local TV stations and tell them to stop showing infomercials and start showing the reruns that they're supposed to be showing.)

I'd say that you should just ignore them when they say this about Shout Factory, but I don't think that it's a big deal.

“Non-debacle?” The issue of the music on the original DVD issue of The Fugitive was one of the greatest debacles in the history of DVD television series releases, for both the fans of the show and ultimately for Paramount/CBS, who wound up having to sink way more money into the project than they would have had they released the series properly in the first place.
Imagine this scenario: go back to when Paramount is releasing Star Trek the original series for the first time ever on DVD. Imagine that those DVDs come out, and it turns out that the original music scored for those episodes by Alexander Courage, Fred Steiner, George Dunning, Gerald Fried, et. al. has been replaced by a score consisting of some synthesizer music drummed up by some hack musician. And if the end credits of each episode were altered to replace the name of the original composer with the hack musician. Do you think fans of the original Star Trek would have stood for that for one second? If that had happened, would you still call it a “non-debacle”? I don’t know, maybe you would.
And again, the whole thing about the music replacement on The Fugitive was not so much that it happened as that Paramount did it in an extremely sneaky, underhanded way, making no public announcement about it prior to release and refusing to respond pubically to the public criticism in its aftermath.
Those of us who “sat on our bums and complained” forced Paramount to eventually re-release The Fugitive with the original score intact. What have those of you who have sat on their buns and complained about US done, other than hamper our efforts to preserve classic television the way it was meant to be seen?

I'd say that you should ignore posters like Shaku Zulu, but I don't think they're that big a deal.

 

[the G-man]

A couple of years ago there was a cable channel that was showing reruns of both hill street blues and LA law

Both of them are on my list of favorite shows of all-time. I made it a point to re-watch both

That being said, while Hill Street blues still holds up LA law is incredibly dated, both in terms of the fashions and some of the topical references

The entire run? I remember NUVO, must have been Lt Calletano and Jesus Martinez that caught their market niche screen, was showing the first couple of seasons only.

It wasn't NUVO. It was some "oldies" cable station up in the triple digits. I don't know if they did entire runs insofar as I changed cable packages a few months in and no longer had the channel.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

These people act as if Shout Factory doesn't have to deal with music publishing companies or with the individuals that own the music used in many of the older shows,

Well, in the first place, none of the instances I cited above had anything to do with music related issues. One of them dealt with an incompetent video transfer, and others with Shout offering inferior quality episodes on a set after being deceitful and dishonest aforehand as to the quality of those episodes.

So they sit on their bums and complain about how they've been betrayed by Shout Factory and other home video companies, when in certain cases like that of the (IMHO) non-debacle centered around the music of The Fugitive DVD sets (Season 2 & 3) being replaced by new music, they really should be going after the rights holder companies/individuals that control said music pieces and giving them a piece of their minds and also telling them to be not so greedy (the same should also go with the executives at the studios as well, and they should also go after the local TV stations and tell them to stop showing infomercials and start showing the reruns that they're supposed to be showing.)

I'd say that you should just ignore them when they say this about Shout Factory, but I don't think that it's a big deal.

“Non-debacle?” The issue of the music on the original DVD issue of The Fugitive was one of the greatest debacles in the history of DVD television series releases, for both the fans of the show and ultimately for Paramount/CBS, who wound up having to sink way more money into the project than they would have had they released the series properly in the first place.
Imagine this scenario: go back to when Paramount is releasing Star Trek the original series for the first time ever on DVD. Imagine that those DVDs come out, and it turns out that the original music scored for those episodes by Alexander Courage, Fred Steiner, George Dunning, Gerald Fried, et. al. has been replaced by a score consisting of some synthesizer music drummed up by some hack musician. And if the end credits of each episode were altered to replace the name of the original composer with the hack musician. Do you think fans of the original Star Trek would have stood for that for one second? If that had happened, would you still call it a “non-debacle”? I don’t know, maybe you would.
And again, the whole thing about the music replacement on The Fugitive was not so much that it happened as that Paramount did it in an extremely sneaky, underhanded way, making no public announcement about it prior to release and refusing to respond pubically to the public criticism in its aftermath.
Those of us who “sat on our bums and complained” forced Paramount to eventually re-release The Fugitive with the original score intact. What have those of you who have sat on their buns and complained about US done, other than hamper our efforts to preserve classic television the way it was meant to be seen?

I'd say that you should ignore posters like Shaku Zulu, but I don't think they're that big a deal.

Actually, I'd love to have the incidental music replaced in the original Star Trek (not the theme, obviously) as an experiment. I would love to see what a modern synthesizer composer (say, Christopher Franke, the composer for Babylon 5) would do with TOS, or even TNG. Why not? There is a precedent for this; people have composed different soundtracks for films like Metropolis, Birth Of A Nation, and Nosferatu (this last one done by a local impresario in Toronto to Radiohead's Kid A album, which he shows at his cinema/house.) All that it would take is being open minded, but being close-minded is all that people can be, I guess.

The complaining (which in most instances consisted of death threats and nasty insults issued to executives and reviewers) didn't really accomplish anything beyond The Fugitive being issued on DVD and likely nothing else older except for Star Trek, Perry Mason, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Mission: Impossible, Hawaii Five-O and I Love Lucy plus some more recent shows being on DVD. What was accomplished other than making Paramount leery of doing old shows?

 

[JWPlatt]

Actually, I'd love to have the incidental music replaced in the original Star Trek (not the theme, obviously) as an experiment.

You're talking about an experiment that would be available for optional purchase in addition to the current releases with all the original music. That's a LOT different. I assume you would not promote the idea that it should be released as THE official release of the entire original series without warning as a surprise for the fans?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I assume you would not promote the idea that it should be released as THE official release of the entire original series without warning as a surprise for the fans?

Why not? I'd offer it on Blu-Ray DVD with the option to hear the original soundtrack, the same way the Star Trek:TOS redo was offered with the option to see the original unaltered version.

 

[ToddPence]

The complaining (which in most instances consisted of death threats and nasty insults issued to executives and reviewers) didn't really accomplish anything beyond The Fugitive being issued on DVD and likely nothing else older except for Star Trek, Perry Mason, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Mission: Impossible, Hawaii Five-O and I Love Lucy plus some more recent shows being on DVD. What was accomplished other than making Paramount leery of doing old shows?

While I certainly don't condone the use of death threats, if I had been responsible for something like the Fugitive music atrocity, I would certainly expect to receive them. And whatever "nasty insults" the perpetrators of such a betrayal of the public trust received were well and fully deserved.
As to this whole "Let's not make the companies mad my criticizing them, they might stop releasing old shows altogether!" line of argument - well, there's a term for individuals who adopt such an attitude. It was originally coined by a Miss Harriet Beecher Stowe as part of the title of a novel she wrote in the 1850's. (Although Stowe's titular character was noble and self-sacrificing in her original book, the term has come to be identified with those who act with fawning sympathy towards individuals in power in order to curry favor with them.)

 

[JWPlatt]

I assume you would not promote the idea that it should be released as THE official release of the entire original series without warning as a surprise for the fans?

Why not? I'd offer it on Blu-Ray DVD with the option to hear the original soundtrack, the same way the Star Trek:TOS redo was offered with the option to see the original unaltered version.

"The option." That's how I would do it. It's a nice idea. But the comparison between The Fugitive and your increasingly hypothetical experimental Star Trek release still fails because there was apparently no option for the misrepresented The Fugitive release until significant complaint. The hypothetical experimental release still does not equally compare to The Fugitive, so the example is pretty much a paper tiger.

 

[J.T.B.]

While I certainly don't condone the use of death threats, if I had been responsible for something like the Fugitive music atrocity, I would certainly expect to receive them. And whatever "nasty insults" the perpetrators of such a betrayal of the public trust received were well and fully deserved.
As to this whole "Let's not make the companies mad my criticizing them, they might stop releasing old shows altogether!" line of argument - well, there's a term for individuals who adopt such an attitude. It was originally coined by a Miss Harriet Beecher Stowe as part of the title of a novel she wrote in the 1850's. (Although Stowe's titular character was noble and self-sacrificing in her original book, the term has come to be identified with those who act with fawning sympathy towards individuals in power in order to curry favor with them.)

I don't see the drama. If a company misrepresents its product, I agree that is serious and should have significant ramifications for them. If the video release was not misrepresented and simply doesn't meet your expectations, you get your money back. But when the mere possibility of a home video set not meeting ones expectations is considered worse than having HIV, that's a whole different level than I'm operating on.

It's been seven years since Fox Video decided not to release HSB seasons 3 through 7 on DVD. That's plenty of time for someone to negotiate home video or streaming rights, and Shout!Factory has apparently been the one to put the deal together. As I said before, I have other sets from the company and have been satisfied. If the HSB release is substandard I'll get my money back and be no worse off than before.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Todd seems to have his hyperbole generator dialed up to 11. Releasing The Fugitive without the original music is a "betrayal of the public trust"?

The NSA tracking our phone calls for no good reason is a betrayal of the public trust. Congress holding the nation's good faith and credit hostage to make a political point is a betrayal of the public trust. Ignoring a national health crisis in the 1980s because gay sex made certain politicians feel icky was a betrayal of the public trust. Substituted music on a DVD... yeah, not so much.

The "Uncle Tom" reference: not very cool, either.

 

[Harvey]

(Post deleted).

 

[Gary Mitchell]

When Wiseguy was finally released on dvd they had to replace a lot of background music. The worst instance was when they had to replace "Knights in White Satin" with an instrumental on the last episode of the Sonny Steelgrave arc. Sure it was a little upsetting but I never regretted buying the set since the alternative was probably never seeing the show again.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Possibly. There's a segment on the very first episode of Sesame Street where Gordon sings "Consider Yourself" (from the musical Oliver!)with a bunch of Everything Muppets; when this episode was released as part of the first Sesame Street: Old School collection, the segment was dropped.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Todd seems to have his hyperbole generator dialed up to 11. Releasing The Fugitive without the original music is a "betrayal of the public trust"?

The NSA tracking our phone calls for no good reason is a betrayal of the public trust. Congress holding the nation's good faith and credit hostage to make a political point is a betrayal of the public trust. Ignoring a national health crisis in the 1980s because gay sex made certain politicians feel icky was a betrayal of the public trust. Substituted music on a DVD... yeah, not so much.

The "Uncle Tom" reference: not very cool, either.

THIS (minus the part about the NSA tracking phone calls-that's its job, and it's been misinterpreted by a whiny crybaby so-called 'whistleblower' who could commit treason under the Obama administration, but not under the Bush one.)

The whole affair has most likely damaged any future attempts by Paramount to put old shows on DVD in other than a pressed format besides The Fugitive, as I've said before-who will want to bother doing that again other than for the crown jewels Star Trek, Hawaii Five-O (1968 series, now on Blu-Ray!), I Love Lucy/The Lucy Show, and maybe a few other old ones I can't remember now?

The music replaced probably wasn't as important to the show as the missing songs from WKRP In Cincinnati are to that set of DVD's because the songs were inserted by the writers (Hugh Wilson & co.) as part of the plot (the episode about the hairy time with the new transmitter and a possible storm with a crucial scene set to the coda of Foreigner's song ' Urgent' comes to mind)-I doubt that incidental music taken from stock cues in a music library come to mind.

Want to get angry? Get angry with the RIGHTS HOLDERS of said music for being such obdurate dicks and forcing CBS and Paramount Home Video to not be able to use said music (the same thing applies to any other DVD's from any other show that has music from other sources in it.) Paramount Home Video did not want to pay a lot of money for music rights for the DVD of an old TV series that might not sell a lot because it cost too much (although they've since rectified that situation.) That's all there is to it.

 

[the G-man]

Anyway, back to Hill Street blues. Was Hill Street the best TV show of all time? Probably not. As groundbreaking as it was, like a lot of network television it went a few seasons longer than it should've and the producers lost their way at times.

Overall I have to say there are number of TV shows that are technically better shows. The Sopranos, the shield, breaking bad, to name a few examples.

However, the first few seasons of Hill Street are every bit as good as those shows and sometimes maybe better. And not a single one of those shows probably would've gotten made if Hill Street hadn't started convincing people that television didn't have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to be a hit

 

[J.T.B.]

Anyway, back to Hill Street blues. Was Hill Street the best TV show of all time? Probably not. As groundbreaking as it was, like a lot of network television it went a few seasons longer than it should've and the producers lost their way at times.

Overall I have to say there are number of TV shows that are technically better shows. The Sopranos, the shield, breaking bad, to name a few examples.

However, the first few seasons of Hill Street are every bit as good as those shows and sometimes maybe better. And not a single one of those shows probably would've gotten made if Hill Street hadn't started convincing people that television didn't have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to be a hit

Of course there is no way to declare the best TV show ever, that's harmless hyperbole. But I'd say the above assessment is fair. In HSB's favor: Its originality, blazing the trail that other shows could follow, and the fact that it did it on a rigid network season schedule, which the other shows mentioned above did not. HSB produced more episodes in less than five calendar years than The Sopranos did in eight and The Shield did in seven. Daniel Travanti said he felt a show could only be really good for about four seasons on that schedule, it burned everyone out.

I've said this before, but the main thing that stands out about HSB to me is the breadth and depth of its character development. There were 13-14 so main ensemble (up to 15-16 in season 5!) and the viewer knew every one of them: their family and home life, their career ups and downs, who they got along with and who rubbed them the wrong way. And in addition, there was a whole stable of recurring characters who were almost as well developed: Irwin Bernstein, Chief Daniels, Jesus Martinez, Leo Schnitz (moved up to the main cast for part of S5), Al Wachtel, Jerry Fuchs, Robin Tataglia, Sid the Snitch, Ozzie Cleveland... Much of this was established with deft touches of dialogue, sometimes a minute or two of characters' non-plot-related conversation. I'm afraid this may make HSB seem slow and "talky" compared to the pace of more recent TV, but it really works for me. The only shows I've seen that could rival HSB in that respect were St. Elsewhere and The Wire.

Personally, I thought The Shield was OK but don't rank it with the greats. It started out unfocused, had a lot of filler, suggested some interesting ideas and then never explored them, and had some preposterous stuff, even for a TV cop show, that was just unbelievable. Take a career investigator with no managerial experience and one day make them the precinct captain, really? Some really great performances, though.

 

[the G-man]

Take a career investigator with no managerial experience and one day make them the precinct captain, really?

Welcome to government work.

 

[tomswift2002]

I would rather hear the news that I'd just tested positive for HIV than hear that Shout Factory had the rights to my favorite TV show. This is one of the worst DVD release companies out there, an amateurish outfit that has a history of botching the release of several classic shows. Keep your fingers crossed that HSB comes out okay.

Meh, Shout Factory isn't bad. For worst DVD company, my vote goes to Mill Creek. Worthless, unplayable disks that freeze up in various spots. I pissed away 70 bucks on Hunter The complete series from them a few years back and found their disks to be horrible.

And it's not just me. I've heard complaints from friends, friends of friends, family of friends, my own family, online reviews, pretty much anybody who ever paid for a Mill Creek release, no matter what it might be. And the complaints continue to this day.

I would also have to say that Alliance/Echo Bridge (formerly Platinum Disc Corporation) are the worst. On their release of "Bordertown" (1988-1991 CTV-CBN), which is suppose to be a "Complete Series" release, the 2nd episode of Season 1 is completely missing it's Teaser and opening credits; the Teaser sets up the whole plot for the episode. However, on an earlier "Best Of" release, the episode is complete. But, unlike the earlier release that only had 28 episodes across 4 discs (one disc has 2 episodes, the other discs have 7 or 8 half-hour shows), this complete series has 78 episodes crammed onto just 6 discs (13-14 episodes per disc).

But for Shout the worst I've seen has been "The Hardy Boys" Season 3 that was just released last-year. I don't blame Shout for the washed-out Syndication prints that were used, I blame Universal. Universal has not touched the original 35mm prints for these 10 episodes since 1979, and as a result, unless someone meets their high demands, all the broadcast and home video releases are derived from 16mm Syndication prints that were made in the 70's, and this is why the episodes look so terrible.

 

[J.T.B.]

I got the discs on Thursday and have been checking them out. Audio and video quality is good. You'd never mistake them for a re-mastered Blu-ray transfer, but they're in line with similar series-to-DVD releases. As far as I can tell the content is all there, I checked a couple of scenes that were missing from some bootlegs I've seen of UK-tv origin (a severed arm, Celestine Gray in The Chair, Belker naked after being beaten [and worse] by a gang of bums) and they were there. I don't know what episode the above-mentioned "Mr. Sandman" is in so I haven't checked it, but I suspect not: The first two seasons discs seem to be a straight carry-over from the 2006 Fox release. Teasers with Taurean Blacque's "Previously on Hill Street Blues..." are included. Packaging is standard quality, the artwork not exactly top-dollar, but adequate. The brochure and extras are fairly thin, compared to my Shout! Larry Sanders Show set, which seemed like a generally more elaborate production. There are some good interviews with Steven Bochco, some actors and some writers, but nothing that really breaks new ground. The booklet has a nice essay by Tom Shales on HSB's place in TV history.

So, all in all I am satisfied with the product as released.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Great. Thanks for the review.