Best TrekLit Villain - Star Trek Magazine wants to know...

[BrotherBenny]

I'm going with Admiral Batiste from Full Circle.

He did everything he could to get Voyager back into the DQ until Janeway said "over my dead body" - and as soon as the Borg Crisis was over, ( and with Janeway dead) off they go - commanded by him!

I say that's villainous, especially as he's so nasty to his ex wife.

.... how on Earth is that villainous?

I mean, it's obviously an interpersonal conflict, but Batiste isn't exactly violating anyone's rights there or trying to hurt anyone. And his logic for sending Voyager back to the Delta Quadrant is compelling. Neither side in that fight are the bad guys.

His logic wasn't compelling for the 2-3 years prior to the Borg crisis. He took advantage of a devastating situation to further his own agenda...that's villainous in my opinion.

 

[Christopher]

His logic wasn't compelling for the 2-3 years prior to the Borg crisis. He took advantage of a devastating situation to further his own agenda...that's villainous in my opinion.

Another way of looking at it is that his logic was right, but it took that devastating situation to make others recognize it. I mean, look at Jean-Luc Picard. The Admiralty didn't find his arguments compelling, but time and again he pursued his own agenda anyway and turned out to be right, and eventually the Admiralty stopped second-guessing him and acceded to his view. Does that mean he took advantage of a devastating situation to further his agenda? Does that make Picard a villain? (Especially considering that Picard openly and repeatedly disobeyed orders to pursue his agenda, something that can't be said of Batiste.)

 

[Sci]

I'm going with Admiral Batiste from Full Circle.

He did everything he could to get Voyager back into the DQ until Janeway said "over my dead body" - and as soon as the Borg Crisis was over, ( and with Janeway dead) off they go - commanded by him!

I say that's villainous, especially as he's so nasty to his ex wife.

.... how on Earth is that villainous?

I mean, it's obviously an interpersonal conflict, but Batiste isn't exactly violating anyone's rights there or trying to hurt anyone. And his logic for sending Voyager back to the Delta Quadrant is compelling. Neither side in that fight are the bad guys.

His logic wasn't compelling for the 2-3 years prior to the Borg crisis.

Yes, it bloody well was, and if Starfleet had listened to him, Voyager and its fleet might have detected the Borg before they arrived in the Alpha Quadrant.

He took advantage of a devastating situation to further his own agenda...that's villainous in my opinion.

So what? Taking advantage of a disaster to further an agenda is not inherently villainous. It only becomes villainous if your agenda is harmful and/or if you're trying to use the shock of the disaster to run roughshod over the democratic process (a la Milton Friedman and his "shock therapy" capitalism).

 

[Saul]

Another vote for Androvar Drake from "Ashes of Eden".
The guy's got history with Kirk, is vengeful and manipulative. Has had a career parallel to Kirk and is an equal match for him.
He gave protomatter to David Marcus for his Genesis device (and we all know how well that one went) and to top it all off, he destroyed the Enterprise A.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'll say Adrik Thorsen from Federation, for sheer nastiness and persistence.

I remember that now! I used to listen to Mark Lenard's audiobook of that.

They tied that into the WWIII setting didn't they? Those red eagle flags seen during the courtroom scene from Encounter at Farpoint, would've belonged to the Optimum and Adrik Thorsen was their leader? John Burke featured in that too but no Colonel Green. Adding that to detail from First Contact, would seem to imply certain sections of the Western world became facist and the opposing side was the ECON? Is that right? Eastern Coalition? Okay that's a cheat since Federation was Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens original explaination, before the film became the established version of the mid-late 21st Century.

AFAIK, the Optimum and the ECON were the same side. The name 'ECON' hadn't yet been invented when Federation was written. But it seems clear they were intended to represent the same side. (Which, in the original draft for ST:FC, was China)

John Burke was definitely not on the side of the Optimum/ECON. In the novel he was clearly involved in the fight *against* them.

 

[BrotherBenny]

His logic wasn't compelling for the 2-3 years prior to the Borg crisis. He took advantage of a devastating situation to further his own agenda...that's villainous in my opinion.

Another way of looking at it is that his logic was right, but it took that devastating situation to make others recognize it. I mean, look at Jean-Luc Picard. The Admiralty didn't find his arguments compelling, but time and again he pursued his own agenda anyway and turned out to be right, and eventually the Admiralty stopped second-guessing him and acceded to his view. Does that mean he took advantage of a devastating situation to further his agenda? Does that make Picard a villain? (Especially considering that Picard openly and repeatedly disobeyed orders to pursue his agenda, something that can't be said of Batiste.)

That's because Batiste was giving the orders. Janeway believed it was a bad idea to send a small heavily-armed Federation fleet into the DQ, not only because of the enemies she had made, but also because her crew, her family, had suffered enough in that part of the galaxy.

If that fleet had gone into the DQ they would have been killed outright and I doubt any message they sent would have reached Starfleet in time. It would have made no difference.

My point is, whether rightly or wrongly, that certain Admirals in Starfleet pursue their own agendas and often slip into the wrong side of the law in order to do so. Now Batiste might not have gone that far, but he did force the issue continually and bullied people to get who he wanted in the right place. Chakotay would have seen through him in an instant, and then he is summarily dismissed from the shortlist for Voyager's captaincy. I think that Chakotay would have taken command of the ship had it not been for Batiste, and he would be in a good position to know what is best for the crew, better than Paris.

 

[Christopher]

Janeway believed it was a bad idea to send a small heavily-armed Federation fleet into the DQ, not only because of the enemies she had made, but also because her crew, her family, had suffered enough in that part of the galaxy.

And that's arguably a selfish perspective for Janeway to take. Batiste was trying to gain information that could protect billions of lives in the Federation, and Janeway fought against it because she and a hundred-odd others were tired? Okay, maybe he was being a little insensitive, but hardly villainous.

If that fleet had gone into the DQ they would have been killed outright and I doubt any message they sent would have reached Starfleet in time. It would have made no difference.

That statement is profoundly illogical. Voyager managed to survive 7 years in the Delta Quadrant all by itself, without any backup from Starfleet. So how can you say that a fleet of nine ships equipped with slipstream drive would be certain to be destroyed?

Not to mention that Voyager was in regular real-time communication with Starfleet for the last two months of its journey, so presumably the 9-ship fleet would be in regular communication using similar methods. There is no basis for your assertion that they couldn't have sent a message.

My point is, whether rightly or wrongly, that certain Admirals in Starfleet pursue their own agendas and often slip into the wrong side of the law in order to do so. Now Batiste might not have gone that far, but he did force the issue continually and bullied people to get who he wanted in the right place.

That makes him a jerk, not a villain. A less-than-amiable management style is hardly comparable to conquest or genocide.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Conquest and genocide is villainy on a large scale. You can have small scale villainy. I'll drop this since I'm out-voted.

 

[PaulSimpson]

Just bringing this to the front as I need to make decisions this coming weekend as to who we're covering. Any more nominations/agreements with the ones here so far?

Paul

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'd like to add Borgified Janeway, from Before Dishonor, to my list. But does that count or not? Janeway is a TV charcter, and so is the Borg Queen. But Borg Queen Janeway?

But then I thought she was fairly evil to begin with ;-)

 

[Sci]

I'd just like to re-iterate my support for the team of Zife & Azernal.

 

[Paris]

^Zife and Azernal should definitely be on the list of top treklit villains. One more vote over from here .

 

[JD]

Yeah, if you have to pick one, they'd probably be my pick too.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Kinchawn and Sejanus, and Tezrene too perhaps.