Best Of Both Worlds Part Two

[Nardpuncher]

Also...I was going to start a Best of Both Worlds Part II thread because in a couple of weeks it'll be 20 years since it aired!

 

[Solarbaby]

BOBW was the best ever TV cliff hanger of all time. Even better than who shot J.R.

I think part 2 was subtly as good in resolving the story. It was clever to use the sleep device instead of finding some technobabble weapon in the nick of time to destroy the cube.

That would have really weakened the episode as then the borg would then be beatable. I think the way they used Data was clever. Without him they would never have defeated the Borg and saved the Federation. So it wasn't an anti climax, it was a clever way to wrap it up without all guns blazing like first contact did. First contact was f****d up. Picard suddenly decides after years of knowing how to defeat the Borg to inform the fleet on the targets of the Borg ship. It was an awesome battle but it just didn't make sense.

I think people get "anti climax" mixed up with "jaw dropping space battles".

 

[Anwar]

Picard didn't always know how to destroy that Cube in FC, his leftover connection to the Collective alerted him to a weakness that had developed as a result of the damage it took. As in, that weakness wasn't always there.

Anywho, it made sense the Feds would eventually figure out how to damage Borg ships with their own weapons. The Borg have a limit to their adaptability.

 

[Solarbaby]

Picard didn't always know how to destroy that Cube in FC, his leftover connection to the Collective alerted him to a weakness that had developed as a result of the damage it took. As in, that weakness wasn't always there.

Anywho, it made sense the Feds would eventually figure out how to damage Borg ships with their own weapons. The Borg have a limit to their adaptability.

That might be how it played out on screen. But it was shit writing and unbelievable. It didn't do anything to make the Borg seem invincible. The TNG films just like to show explosions because they can. The exploration of science as a way to defeat the Borg in BOBW2 was more interesting to a sci fi fan.
The battle was good to anyone looking for less sosphisticated entertainment.

 

[Anwar]

That might be how it played out on screen. But it was shit writing and unbelievable. It didn't do anything to make the Borg seem invincible.

It wasn't meant to. In fact it was the opposite, it was to show that the Borg WEREN'T invincible.

Actually, TNG already showed the Borg weren't invincible because in "Descent" the Enterprise destroyed a Borg Cruiser by having it be hit by a solar flare.

No one complained there.

 

[Cyke101]

I've thought this for years. Glad I wasn't alone. The music change was strange, why not use the same style since its a two-parter? Also, seeing Picard back in command at the end didn't sit right with me. I would have preferred seeing Riker retain command for a few episodes while Starfleet tests Picard to make sure he's emotionally recovered fully, as well as making sure Picard wouldn't "go Borg" at a later date. Than after 4 or 5 episodes Picard could make a comeback.

TNG was primarily an episodic series, not serialized as most shows today, which has its strengths and weaknesses. Having your main, very talented, very expensive actor absent from the show for 4 or 5 episodes is insane from the studio's point of view and I can't blame them. The great strength about an episodic type series is that for the most part they have to resolve the story arc at the end of the hour. The writers can't just leave things unresolved and assume they'll figure it out later. I think this is what makes for great stand-alone episodes, whereas with more serialized series watching one episode is hardly satisfying.

If TNG was a serialized show and they went down the route of having Picard away from the crew for 5 episodes, I don't think it would mean Patrick Stewart would be having a mini paid vacation. There's always subplots, and the serial shows of today, as well as DS9 and Sisko's sabbatical in S7, easily switched between the main character and the others no matter how far apart they were (it's a key device in 24, for example: for several seasons, most of the physical action took place in LA, while most of the political action took place in DC at the same time). LOST not only did this geographically, but temporally as well.

Rather, considering how well TNG tended to balance different types of plots and focus on its characters, I think we'd see Picard along on his road to recovery as one plot itself, while the rest of the crew do their thing. After all, it was executed quite nicely in Family. Of course, that's all hypothetical.

 

[YARN]

It suffers from TNG not being serialized, so everything in the episode is resolved to status quo bythe end of it.

Yes

It would have been interesting to see Picard as the enemy for the better part of a season. Have Locutus choke Whorf to death while talking some Borg-smack about the inferiority of Klingons - or gouge out someone's eye or something so you could never forget the things he did within that identity.

Eventually bring him back (rescue mission), but have some people relate to him differently because of all the innovative things he empowered the Borg to do.

 

[TV's Frank]

It suffers from TNG not being serialized, so everything in the episode is resolved to status quo bythe end of it.

Yes

It would have been interesting to see Picard as the enemy for the better part of a season. Have Locutus choke Whorf to death while talking some Borg-smack about the inferiority of Klingons - or gouge out someone's eye or something so you could never forget the things he did within that identity.

Eventually bring him back (rescue mission), but have some people relate to him differently because of all the innovative things he empowered the Borg to do.

Wow, and with those developments we would have missed out on many great episodes in the seasons to follow BOBW. Some fans seem to forget that both TOS and TNG (esp TOS) are more akin to anthology series, but with a continuing cast characters who are involved in a variety of ethical, moral or philosophical problems, wrestled with and debated on an episodic basis. Neither were meant to be night-time soap operas where character-related issues carried over throughout entire seasons. Eventually this type of storytelling did seep into TNG, mostly by necessity as the series last longer than TOS, and the writers developed a great mix of some serialized (such as Worf's discommendation) amidst the stand-alone, moral dilemma of the week. But I don't think that TNG would have somehow been a better series with an all-serialized format.

 

[Cyke101]

It suffers from TNG not being serialized, so everything in the episode is resolved to status quo bythe end of it.

Yes

It would have been interesting to see Picard as the enemy for the better part of a season. Have Locutus choke Whorf to death while talking some Borg-smack about the inferiority of Klingons - or gouge out someone's eye or something so you could never forget the things he did within that identity.

Eventually bring him back (rescue mission), but have some people relate to him differently because of all the innovative things he empowered the Borg to do.

Wow, and with those developments we would have missed out on many great episodes in the seasons to follow BOBW. Some fans seem to forget that both TOS and TNG (esp TOS) are more akin to anthology series, but with a continuing cast characters who are involved in a variety of ethical, moral or philosophical problems, wrestled with and debated on an episodic basis. Neither were meant to be night-time soap operas where character-related issues carried over throughout entire seasons. Eventually this type of storytelling did seep into TNG, mostly by necessity as the series last longer than TOS, and the writers developed a great mix of some serialized (such as Worf's discommendation) amidst the stand-alone, moral dilemma of the week. But I don't think that TNG would have somehow been a better series with an all-serialized format.

No one's saying the entire show would be *automatically* better had it been serialized , people are just discussing the possibilities if the format was different and that the plot/major consequences of BOBW lends itself to serialization (frankly, if it didn't, why have Family in the first place? It wasn't part of the two-parter, after all). I also don't see how serializing BOBW would necessarily negate other Trek stories -- a number of them reference the events of this episode.

I also love how you insinuate that serial shows must be nightly soap operas. Someone should tell The Office, 30 Rock, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Califironication that they should be more like soap operas, not comedies. We get it that you don't like serialized shows, but it's kind of pointless to imagine TNG as a series of stand-alone episodes when that's what we got in the first place; since serial shows are an alternative to a stand-alone series, that's where the discussion/hypotheticals went. Being serialized doesn't ensure quality because, like all forms of storytelling, the execution matters more than the format. But one can't deny the critical acclaim that many (not all) serialized shows have had over the years, from DS9 and Babylon 5 to Mad Men and The Sopranos.

 

[Leathco]

Figured I'd peek in here again.

I didn't expect Picard to completely not be in the following episodes in my idea, just not the captain. Show him taking medical tests in Starfleet HQ, taking counseling at having his body ripped away from him while his mind was partly intact, perhaps a plot where Starfleet doesn't want him to come back due to the possibility of him reverting back to drone status due to an implant that would kill him if it were removed, stuff like that.

I'm not saying that what we got was crap, hell I enjoyed it a lot. But there are always.....possibilities.

 

[Alrik]

Quick addition-there was actually fan speculation in Summer 1990 that Picard would be killed, or no longer be on the Enterprise, Riker would be Captain with Shelby as the XO, etc.

It was more than speculation. Stewart had been in talks with the suits to renegotiate his contract around the end of shooting season 3, so the were real questions as to if he would be back or not. That really amped up the anticipation for Part II over the summer. Will he be back or not?! Argh!! Let's just say, that was one long summer.

 

[TV's Frank]

No one's saying the entire show would be *automatically* better had it been serialized , people are just discussing the possibilities if the format was different and that the plot/major consequences of BOBW lends itself to serialization (frankly, if it didn't, why have Family in the first place? It wasn't part of the two-parter, after all). I also don't see how serializing BOBW would necessarily negate other Trek stories -- a number of them reference the events of this episode.

I also love how you insinuate that serial shows must be nightly soap operas. Someone should tell The Office, 30 Rock, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Califironication that they should be more like soap operas, not comedies. We get it that you don't like serialized shows, but it's kind of pointless to imagine TNG as a series of stand-alone episodes when that's what we got in the first place; since serial shows are an alternative to a stand-alone series, that's where the discussion/hypotheticals went. Being serialized doesn't ensure quality because, like all forms of storytelling, the execution matters more than the format. But one can't deny the critical acclaim that many (not all) serialized shows have had over the years, from DS9 and Babylon 5 to Mad Men and The Sopranos.

I don't have a problem with serialized shows, although it is now the default for most programs, it seems. Each format has its strengths and weaknesses and TNG did extend itself into both as it matured. I grant that shows like 24, Lost, Mad Men and DS9 and others of a more serialized nature can do marvelous things in terms of character and story, I just don't think it's immediately a better format for television. My mention of night-time soap operas was just an analogy, not meant to categorize all serialized shows.

I still think that one of the advantages of a more episodic format such as TNG is the ability to dive into different styles on a weekly basis. You could have the comedic high of "Deja Q" followed by the heart-breaking "The Offspring", the action-tension of "The High Ground" followed by the deeply moving "Sarek". Most serialized shows need to maintain a consistent tone and style each week, since issues and plot points from last episode will carry over into subsequent episodes and you can't do a swift right turn from suspense to comedy or from action to heartbreak. It makes episodes of these series more "of a piece", like a very long, continuous work of music. And it has value, of course. But I've always appreciated the fact that TNG's story-telling format does allow them such broad tonal variety so that one could be in the mood to watch its more comedic episodes or perhaps its more philosophical entries and not have watch all episodes prior to and following these examples.

 

[Nardpuncher]

Quick addition-there was actually fan speculation in Summer 1990 that Picard would be killed, or no longer be on the Enterprise, Riker would be Captain with Shelby as the XO, etc.

It was more than speculation. Stewart had been in talks with the suits to renegotiate his contract around the end of shooting season 3, so the were real questions as to if he would be back or not. That really amped up the anticipation for Part II over the summer. Will he be back or not?! Argh!! Let's just say, that was one long summer.

The thing is I'd guess not many knew that Stewart was thinkng of leaving, (I didn't) what with Starlog being where I got my genre news from.
Ah, pre-internet days!

I remember the thrill of waiting after the last commercial break for the promo about next week's episode. That was fun.
Akin to that was walking into the bookstore wondering if they'd have the new book and what the new book would even be! Literally no idea...not even the title!