Berman really had a stupid idea on music

[tharpdevenport]

Ron Jones was a terrific composer. When fans site the shows scores, they often cite titles he scored, and among the favorite episode scores is always "The Best of Both Worlds".

His music was always the best, though in the shows initial season both the music and the show were still finding their place. Firing him was a big mistake. It's akin to doing something liek firing Herrmann from "The Twilight Zone", firing Chrsitophe Beck from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", or Mike Post from "Magnum, pi".

Composer Velton Ray Bunch even had Berman mess with his scor eto the Enterprise episode "Silent Enemy", which despite Berman's efforts, still got critical acclaim from fans and won an Emmy.

Berman even had Dennis McCarthy on hold to score "First Contact" if Goldsmith couldn't. Can you imagine what that must have felt like? Won't let you score it because he's waiting for a "better" composer?


Various composer submitted demo CDs to try for Enterprise. Let me give you an example: both Brian Tyler and Shirley Walker submitted, but they chose Tyler over her. If the overly complicated debacle invloving personal ties and insults, in Goldsmith's rejected score to "Timeline" hadn't happend, Tyler would still be a nobody.

 

[Harvey]

Various composer submitted demo CDs to try for Enterprise. Let me give you an example: both Brian Tyler and Shirley Walker submitted, but they chose Tyler over her. If the overly complicated debacle invloving personal ties and insults, in Goldsmith's rejected score to "Timeline" hadn't happend, Tyler would still be a nobody.

I'm not aware of the sage you refer to, but didn't Tyler compose Children of Dune before his Trek work? I think that score has gotten him a certain amount of notice (a portion was used in the recent Indiana Jones 4 trailer, for example).

 

[CaptJimboJones]

Yep, I enjoy it too. Sometimes ya just have to call a spade a spade, and Berman was just not a good creative force in Star Trek, period.

Yeah, for example, he co-created Deep Space Nine. I think we all can agree THAT was a mistake!

As to the topic at hand, it was interesting that the whole "wallpaper" musical style changed so dramatically with the third and fourth seasons of Enterprise, when we suddenly began hearing melodic, adventurous scores. Did Berman have a change of heart, or was he just in Kitchen Sink mode, trying anything to save the show?

Also, IMO you can have musical scores that are too intrusive. The music of the new Doctor Who, for example, is jarring, loud and more often than not detracts from my enjoyment of the show.

 

[Harvey]

I thought Enterprise had more melodic scores beginning in the first season. There were still elements of the "wallpaper" sound (Fight or Flight having a particularly unmemorable wallpaper score; Terra Nova using the wallpaper sound, but adding more texture with drums), but it was already removed from the Deep Space Nine/Voyager mode of music.

Season three was definitely a turning point, though. The wallpaper sound was finally abandoned for good. I have mixed feelings about the added synth scoring in season four as a budgetary measure, though.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

I thought Enterprise had more melodic scores beginning in the first season.

I really started noticing with "Silent Enemy". Then in season 2 with "Regeneration" and "Canamar" we started getting the kind of kickass scores that had been absent from Star Trek for years.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I'm one of those viwers who doesn't really notice the music. Would someone be so kind, if they feel inclined, to maybe find on youtube a couple of scenes from TNG with good music and a couple with bad?

 

[A beaker full of death]

I'm one of those viwers who doesn't really notice the music. Would someone be so kind, if they feel inclined, to maybe find on youtube a couple of scenes from TNG with good music and a couple with bad?

Just compare any episode of TOS with any Season 4-end episode of TNG.

 

[Iamnotspock]

On the First Contact DVD, there's a featurette entitled Jerry Goldsmith: A Tribute, in which various people including Berman, Jay Chattaway and Jonathan Frakes discuss the experience of working with Jerry Goldsmith across three TNG movies. Berman is surprisingly enthusiastic about the composer, and mentions how excited the members of the production team were when they found that JG was available and willing to score FC.

I found this interesting coming from a man who seemingly had no interest in making the TV scores memorable in any way. Perhaps he simply has a different view on movies vs. TV?

 

[tharpdevenport]

What option was he left with? He knew Goldsmith's scores were the msot popular, Horner didn't want to score another film, Rosenman was very self-centered and too outspoken at times, Eidelman was a one timer and not someone you'd want to bring into TNG pictures. Goldsmith was pretty much the only choice. When you already got a fanbase devoted to exclusively hating you and your "is pleased" ways, you stick with something that's proven: Goldsmith and Trek scores.

 

[The Wormhole]

For the most part, yeah, modern day TV Trek music sucked. The title themes were top notch, but the music in the episodes themselves? The only piece of memorable music in TNG was TBOBW1, but that was primarily Ron Jones with an attitude of "It's my last show, what are you going to do to me?"

DS9's music rarely stood out, if ever. Voyager had a few decnt tunes, Species 8472's theme in Scorpion for one, and the action music they used later on in the series, though that eventually got tiresome due to overuse.

Enterprise had some stand out music, particularly in its final season. Worth noting is the music played in the Vulcan arc during the scenes when Archer is talking with Surak's katra, the theme music for the MU episodes, and the final montage in TATV.

 

[WalkinMan]

Yes, some of TNG's 'background Muzak' was too bland by far. VOY was often like that...but there were moments.

They should release the "Scorpion" soundtrack from VOY!

Also I love the 'Planets'-inspired themes from DS9's "Sacrifice of Angels."

 

[RobertScorpio]

Anyone else enjoy when the people who actually worked for Berman criticize him? I love it, frankly. It makes all those endless years of we, the fans, complaining, somehow suddenly seem much more legitimate and worthwhile. I mean, it's one thing for people like out, outside of the process, to criticize. It's another when those involved in such step-by-step do the same exact thing, thus confirming what we always said and validating our opinions, even semi-changing those opinions to facts by doing so.

Yep, I enjoy it too. Sometimes ya just have to call a spade a spade, and Berman was just not a good creative force in Star Trek, period.

Sorry...but when people like you go that far, its utterly pathetic. The guy had his problems, made his mistakes, big ones. But to say it was all a zero, as you are, is a bit too much. But then again, you are only singing to the choir on this board so, it is really not that unexpected...and I am actually not a Berman fan...but come on...really.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Harvey]

The only piece of memorable music in TNG was TBOBW1, but that was primarily Ron Jones with an attitude of "It's my last show, what are you going to do to me?"

Jones wasn't actually fired until season four (his final episode is The Drumhead). He composed the score to The Best of Both Worlds, Part Two as well (both parts are combined on an album). And, although I love his work there, much of it is simply the logical advancement of themes he had already developed in Q Who? I'd characterize it more as usual strong work from the composer, rather than a statement to the producers.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Every once in a while, I'll suddenly realize just how much music can enhance a series, even if it's subconscious. I may not notice the music, but it's having an impact the whole time, and setting the emotional tone for everything that's happening. Dexter and Lost are two great examples of that.

 

[Oso Blanco]

The musical scores in the first two seasons of TNG were horrible, though, and if it was, in fact, Berman's decision to move away from the horribly cheesy synths and go back to the wall of french horns, my hat is off to him.

Absolutely!

 

[Oso Blanco]

Yep, I enjoy it too. Sometimes ya just have to call a spade a spade, and Berman was just not a good creative force in Star Trek, period.

Sorry...but when people like you go that far, its utterly pathetic. The guy had his problems, made his mistakes, big ones. But to say it was all a zero, as you are, is a bit too much. But then again, you are only singing to the choir on this board so, it is really not that unexpected...and I am actually not a Berman fan...but come on...really.

Agreed! Berman saved TNG. Without him, it would probably have been cancelled after season two or three.

Although Voyager was pretty uneven and the whole premise of Enterprise was questionable, we must acknowledge that he saved TNG and created DS9.

I think that without Berman, Star Trek would have ended in the mid nineties.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

When you already got a fanbase devoted to exclusively hating you and your "is pleased" ways, you stick with something that's proven: Goldsmith and Trek scores.

People were calling for the downfall of Berman while First Contact was being made, which every one was calling at the time (and many in retrospect) the apex of the TNG franchise??

Or revisionist history...

YOU ALL decide.

 

[Harvey]

Yep, I enjoy it too. Sometimes ya just have to call a spade a spade, and Berman was just not a good creative force in Star Trek, period.

Sorry...but when people like you go that far, its utterly pathetic. The guy had his problems, made his mistakes, big ones. But to say it was all a zero, as you are, is a bit too much. But then again, you are only singing to the choir on this board so, it is really not that unexpected...and I am actually not a Berman fan...but come on...really.

Agreed! Berman saved TNG. Without him, it would probably have been cancelled after season two or three.

Although Voyager was pretty uneven and the whole premise of Enterprise was questionable, we must acknowledge that he saved TNG and created DS9.

I think that without Berman, Star Trek would have ended in the mid nineties.

Berman certainly had his influences, and they should not be underestimated, but you also have to at least mention Michael Piller when discussing The Next Generation's tonal shift in season three.

 

[Trilliam]

The theme music for "Enterprise" would have worked better for me, if it hadn't already been used for "Patch Adams". That they didn't use an original composition for this series did not impress me at all - then again, neither did "Enterprise".

 

[Therin of Andor]

The theme music for "Enterprise" would have worked better for me, if it hadn't already been used for "Patch Adams".

The moment it was announced that the forthcoming series would use a Rod Stewart song that appeared in the closing credits of "Patch Adams", I searched locally, but ended up ordering that soundtrack from Amazon.

I enjoyed "Faith of the Heart" for many months before the premiere of "Broken Bow".