Benicio Del Toro to be the villain in the Star Trek sequel?
- Thread starter Hythlodeus
- Start date
It's not the nature of many of us on these boards to be sanguine (fatalistic is more appropriate), but I've decided it's the rational thing for me to be this time around. ST09 turned out fine in my eyes, so Abrams and company have earned a bit of my trust this time around (bet that makes them feel better 
).
If it is del Toro, and if he is Khan, maybe they have a kick-ass story to tell that requires Khan. If it's del Toro, and he's Kor, then who's to say? That doesn't automatically mean a good story.
For all we know, Eve's character could be Kirk's love interest, or she could become part of a love triangle with Spock and Uhura. Hell, she could very well be no one's love interest. Who knows? We don't, yet. So I'm remaining calm.
Whatever we think, the die is cast, and I'm just hoping for (another) good story. I refuse to wring my hands and worry just yet. But of course, like any good Trek fan, I reserve the right to piss and moan and tell them where they've gone wrong in the future.
).If it is del Toro, and if he is Khan, maybe they have a kick-ass story to tell that requires Khan. If it's del Toro, and he's Kor, then who's to say? That doesn't automatically mean a good story.
For all we know, Eve's character could be Kirk's love interest, or she could become part of a love triangle with Spock and Uhura. Hell, she could very well be no one's love interest. Who knows? We don't, yet. So I'm remaining calm.
Whatever we think, the die is cast, and I'm just hoping for (another) good story. I refuse to wring my hands and worry just yet. But of course, like any good Trek fan, I reserve the right to piss and moan and tell them where they've gone wrong in the future.
Familiar villains from TOS:
Khan
Kor
Koloth
Kang
Trelane
Jack the Ripper
Harry Mudd
The Gorn Kirk fought
Am I missing anyone?
So it's not Khan according to Abrams. Of those I listed I can see Del Toro playing the nixxed Khan. Kor or Kang. I don't think he fits with the other characters. I suppose it could be the Gorn Kirk fought but I don't see them using Del Toro for that. I think Kor or Kang is the most likely.
Khan
Kor
Koloth
Kang
Trelane
Jack the Ripper
Harry Mudd
The Gorn Kirk fought
Am I missing anyone?
So it's not Khan according to Abrams. Of those I listed I can see Del Toro playing the nixxed Khan. Kor or Kang. I don't think he fits with the other characters. I suppose it could be the Gorn Kirk fought but I don't see them using Del Toro for that. I think Kor or Kang is the most likely.
Posted this at TrekMovie...
Maybe this is going to be The Wrath of Joaquin.
He was Khan’s bodyguard. If you remember, Khan nearly died as they tried to wake him in “Space Seed”… what if, as a surprise to the fans, Khan dies right in the first few minutes of the movie when the, say, Klingons board the ship first. Joaquin then becomes the de facto leader of the Botany Bay augments. They take over the Klingon ship and eventually do battle with the Enterprise.
Or they could always leave Khan in suspended animation on the Botany Bay when Joaquin and the others abandon it. Maybe he’s afraid of Khan and doesn’t want him woken up? Therefore Khan’s still “out there”… maybe he’ll be woken up in this timeline, maybe not?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Joaquin
Maybe this is going to be The Wrath of Joaquin.
He was Khan’s bodyguard. If you remember, Khan nearly died as they tried to wake him in “Space Seed”… what if, as a surprise to the fans, Khan dies right in the first few minutes of the movie when the, say, Klingons board the ship first. Joaquin then becomes the de facto leader of the Botany Bay augments. They take over the Klingon ship and eventually do battle with the Enterprise.
Or they could always leave Khan in suspended animation on the Botany Bay when Joaquin and the others abandon it. Maybe he’s afraid of Khan and doesn’t want him woken up? Therefore Khan’s still “out there”… maybe he’ll be woken up in this timeline, maybe not?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Joaquin
I wonder if the mentor of Del Toro's character (which JJ mentioned at some point) will be Khan? Maybe the Klingons found the Botany Bay some time after 2233 and he's risen to a position of influence (but not outright power, since he's human) the Empire.
My guess is that he will be playing Kang. I even Photoshopped a picture of how he could look:
Roberto Orci said once that the villain wouldn't be from the first season which eliminates Khan and Kor.
Roberto Orci said once that the villain wouldn't be from the first season which eliminates Khan and Kor.
^ I like.
Thanks.
I think having Khan appear could be interesting so long as it isn't a retread of either Space Seed or The Wrath of Khan. Use the alternate reality to your advantage and maybe devise a completely different scenario with Khan, if possible.
But if given a choice between Khan or a totally original concept, I'd go with the original concept.
But if given a choice between Khan or a totally original concept, I'd go with the original concept.
He could be Kor or Kruge or Kang or Kong or Kolossus or someone but the writers will still have to devote some time to developing a character and motivation for him since no one knows who any of those guys are.
I'm hoping for Kang.
I wouldn't mind Khan, I guess, although I consider TWOK holy and untouchable, I would be interested in seeing the version Abrams can come up with, mainly because I know it would probably be good.
I wouldn't mind Khan, I guess, although I consider TWOK holy and untouchable, I would be interested in seeing the version Abrams can come up with, mainly because I know it would probably be good.
Well, isn't that what writers do? I mean, I'd never heard of Hans Gruber before I saw Die Hard, but somehow he still managed to be one of the most memorable cinematic villains of all time.
Yeah, as long as they were rebooting Batman they should have done what writers do and stayed away from the Joker in the second flick. Who wanted to see that again?
Just because it happened to work for TDK it doesn't mean it automatically works for everything else.
I think there's a difference. Someone like The Joker, Moriarty, Lex Luthor, etcis the definitive villain, the nemesis of the hero in whose story they appear. They are obviously ripe for reinvention along with the hero and are an essential part of their do-gooder enemy's story.
Khan was never designed as such. He was intended as a one-shot villain in Space Seed, not as Kirk's nemesis, not as a recurring essential part of the Star Trek story.
Then Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer looked back over the original series when trying to decide how to make a sequel to TMP that avoided its mistakes and captured the tv show's charm and sense of adventure. They settled on Khan but could as easily have settled on Kor, Koloth or anyone else.
They then came up with a particular story that suited Khan and the history between him and Kirk (being marooned on Alpha Ceti etc). And that story was told, very well as it happens, and concluded.
I don't think Khan can be or needs to be reinvented in the same way that we can have a Jack Nicholson Joker and then a very different Heath Ledger take on him. And for a series based on the idea of Boldly Going Where No Man (or No-One) has gone before with all of space to explore, I just don't see the need to revisit him again.
Khan was never designed as such. He was intended as a one-shot villain in Space Seed, not as Kirk's nemesis, not as a recurring essential part of the Star Trek story.
Then Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer looked back over the original series when trying to decide how to make a sequel to TMP that avoided its mistakes and captured the tv show's charm and sense of adventure. They settled on Khan but could as easily have settled on Kor, Koloth or anyone else.
They then came up with a particular story that suited Khan and the history between him and Kirk (being marooned on Alpha Ceti etc). And that story was told, very well as it happens, and concluded.
I don't think Khan can be or needs to be reinvented in the same way that we can have a Jack Nicholson Joker and then a very different Heath Ledger take on him. And for a series based on the idea of Boldly Going Where No Man (or No-One) has gone before with all of space to explore, I just don't see the need to revisit him again.
I've said this myself, before, and agree wholeheartedly. Khan in TWOK carries the baggage created for him by Bennett and Meyer after "Space Seed".
The Khan of "Space Seed" was not nearly as interesting himself as the maniacal Khan of TWOK was. Kirk's dealt with other great intellects gone sour. It was what Khan became by TWOK that made the villain we remember. Could that really be duplicated? Why would anyone want to?
I'd agree with memorable, but quibble about iconic. I'd say the only truly iconic TOS baddies are the Klingons, represented by the trinity of Kor, Kang, and Koloth.
I don't think the average viewer really remembers Kor, Kang, or Koloth. They just remember the Klingons. If the villain in the second movie is a Klingon, most people won't care if he's not named Kor, or Kang, or Koloth, and if he is, most of them probably won't get the reference.
