Before Dishonor

[Starbreaker]

I didn't know which of the 5000 threads to reply to, so I figured I'd start my own.

Just a quick recap. I hadn't read a Trek book since Taking Wing was published (2005?). I decided on April 1 that I was going to get caught up with TNG and Titan and some DS9 so that I could read the Destiny trilogy that I hear is "OMG."

Didn't really care for Death in Winter. I thought Resistance was a poor rehash of BOBW and First Contact. Thought Q&A was fun up until the end, loved the characters of Kadahota and Leybenzon.

All those books felt small somehow. They didn't really advance any plots except the relationship of Picard and Crusher. While they were all quick, somewhat fun reads, I didn't find any of them memorable. I had read scathing reviews of Before Dishonor, so I didn't really know what to expect.

Peter David certainly is quirky, but he's not afraid to take risks. This book just felt epic from beginning to end. The characterizations of Seven and Spock are spot on and it was fun to have them in this book. From Janeway to the Starfleet Command bunker, to the Enterprise and the Doomsday Machine, this felt like a very important book.

I thought the Janeway/Lady Q thing was well done. A major character was offed, but left open for room for interpretation. I can handle that.

I definitely was not expecting this to be somewhat of a sequel to Vendetta. It's been so long since I've read that one that I didn't really remember anything other than Delcara though.

The only thing I really didn't like about this book is the poorly executed mutiny. Just completely unbelievable. Pretty much the worst mutiny ever.

The best of the first four novels by far, but I'm already 100 pages into Greater Than the Sum, and it's topping this one so far...

 

[F. King Daniel]

I thought Before Dishonor was fun, in a big dumb action movie kind of way. The mutiny was ourageous - but IMO in a good way. IIRC Greater Than the Sum has lots of "it was a weird day for everyone"-type sentiments reguarding that. Pluto was funny. How big must the cube have been after that? Janeway's death? See the thread I started for everyone's opinions on that
I read the TNG relaunch backwards, so I saw resistance as a rehash of Destiny.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I'm afraid to say I think "Before Dishonor" is one of my least favorite Trek books (out of those I've read, mostly the 21st century offerings). I consider it the weak point of the ongoing continuity. While I read it a second time to see if it was really that bad and had to conclude it wasn't quite as poor as I first thought, it was a misfire, as far as I'm concerned. Why state the intention is to make the Borg scary and serious again only to have a comic-bookish JanewayQueen-laughs-evilly Borg plot in which they eat Pluto? "The Borg ate Pluto" is comic, not scary (at least this joke actually worked for me; many didn't).

Plus the characters were completely different- Kadohata sort of survived but was more a plot point here than a character, Leybenzon became an exaggerated cartoon of himself and T'Lana was totally destroyed. She was previously stated to have "deep respect for other cultures" yet here declares all non-Vulcan cultures inferior to her own.

Even the established characters were "off"- they were reduced to one core trait which was then exaggerated beyond reason.

Seven = Cold. It totally ignores the development she undertook not only in other books but within the final season of the TV show, where she gained a great deal of warmth and "humanity". Fair enough, these are desperate times, but she felt like the original character not the one she's otherwise evolved into.

Worf = Badass berserker. He's just the aggressive fighter guy who is ready to break something over someone's head in raw rage at any sign of a threat, discarding all development since the earlier seasons of TNG including four years of diplomatic service. Again, he's original undeveloped Worf again.

Nechayev= "Bitchy". She seems to once again have become the unreasonable obstacle, despite becoming three-dimensional and sympathetic both in other novels and in later TV episodes.

The whole thing just feels off to me. The continuity just feels off- and I'm not talking about continuity as an ongoing series of events to be listed, but in the sense of how each story "fits" into a developing universe, how the characters "read" and how they develop over time. In fact, Before Dishonor shared this problem with Resistance- both novels felt disassociated from the ongoing story of the Trek universe even as they advanced it. They felt "timeless", when they should have been integrated. I don't mean they needed to say "hey, remember the Malkus-Genesis Wave-Rashanar-Tezwa-whatever", that isn't necessary to keep the continuity convincing (that's just a bonus), in fact it might get in the way for a new series- instead they needed to convince simply as characters who exist in an unfolding universe. It isn't the actual described events that hold a continuity together- it's the sense of a moving history. Resistance mentioned First Contact, the Ba'ku, Nemesis, etc, but didn't truly feel situated at the point in the history it was set- it could have been set anywhen in TNG if not for those references. Before Dishonor seemed to ignore anything from beyond shortly after each character's genesis, despite the setting of 2380. It doesn't matter if the novel referenced the events of the Voyager-relaunch, A Time to...etc or not, but what does matter is that we don't feel like they never happened.

Oh well, it's rare I find a modern Trek book I don't like, so no lasting harm.

 

[Warp Coil]

I thought that Before Dishonor was a fun, page-turning, read. The action was good. The characterizations of some characters (like Seven) were good, while some (the new Enterprise-E crew) were awful. The mutiny was ridiculous and made no sense whatsoever. I kinda wish it didn't happen, but then again, I am really glad that T'Lana and Leybenzon disappeared. I never liked them as part of the crew. The TNG relaunch became much stronger with the introduction of Choudhury and T'yrissa.

 

[Thrawn]

Nasat - I agree with everything you said, except I loved it anyway. Continuity is important, and I refer to the sense you do, continuity of character. And it's absolutely true that PAD didn't pay much attention to it. But I thought, divorced from the stuff around it, the book on its own was highly entertaining, and fit pretty well into PAD's NF-style, which I adore in its own series. So I think I was a little more able to sort of take it on its own merits.

But I do agree with everything you posted, and certainly sympathize with everyone that's displeased. It's a totally understandable opinion.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Nasat - I agree with everything you said, except I loved it anyway. Continuity is important, and I refer to the sense you do, continuity of character. And it's absolutely true that PAD didn't pay much attention to it. But I thought, divorced from the stuff around it, the book on its own was highly entertaining, and fit pretty well into PAD's NF-style, which I adore in its own series. So I think I was a little more able to sort of take it on its own merits.

I understand. I'm reasonably fond of New Frontier- not to the extent some are, but I do still enjoy it- and I appreciate the quirky take on Trek that Peter David uses there. It gives us some nice variety; I just think it best if that particular approach remains in Sector 221-G where it works, because I don't think it does here.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

The whole thing just feels off to me. The continuity just feels off- and I'm not talking about continuity as an ongoing series of events to be listed, but in the sense of how each story "fits" into a developing universe, how the characters "read" and how they develop over time. In fact, Before Dishonor shared this problem with Resistance- both novels felt disassociated from the ongoing story of the Trek universe even as they advanced it. They felt "timeless", when they should have been integrated. I don't mean they needed to say "hey, remember the Malkus-Genesis Wave-Rashanar-Tezwa-whatever", that isn't necessary to keep the continuity convincing (that's just a bonus), in fact it might get in the way for a new series- instead they needed to convince simply as characters who exist in an unfolding universe. It isn't the actual described events that hold a continuity together- it's the sense of a moving history. Resistance mentioned First Contact, the Ba'ku, Nemesis, etc, but didn't truly feel situated at the point in the history it was set- it could have been set anywhen in TNG if not for those references. Before Dishonor seemed to ignore anything from beyond shortly after each character's genesis, despite the setting of 2380. It doesn't matter if the novel referenced the events of the Voyager-relaunch, A Time to...etc or not, but what does matter is that we don't feel like they never happened.

IMO that made BD more accessible to me. I'm a casual reader of Trek lit. Even when I do read a Trek novel it's mostly Classic Trek, Shatnerverse or New Frontier. I read TNG stuff only once in a blue moon.

All I wanted when I read the Dillard/David/Bennett Borg Trilogy was a fun romp with the Borg. I felt extremely gratified that I could pick Resistance, Before Dishonor and Greater Than the Sum off the shelf and just start reading them with no knowledge of the last fifty or so novels. The characters were still recognizable from where we left them in Nemesis and I could get right into the story.

Continuity is a good thing. So is accessibility. Remember not everybody reads every Trek novel published. It's best not to confuse casual readers when they decide to pick one up because it might be the last one we decide to pick up.

 

[captcalhoun]

i don't care what anyone else says, Before Dishonour is a great book. i especially love the scene with Calhoun (especially the 'don't forget to say 'engage'' gag) and then when Seven informs Nechayev and Jellico of 'Commodore' Picard's plans and her telling them that Mac 'promoted' Picard.

and PAD's kick at Richard Arnold.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

and PAD's kick at Richard Arnold.

CLASSIC!

 

[Starbreaker]

I haven't read much New Frontier, but I did like the Calhoun appearance.

The gift shop gag got was weird. It was funny when Stephens/Q said it, then was completely inappropriate when Beverly mentioned it, but seemed natural with Calhoun again.

 

[Turtletrekker]

and PAD's kick at Richard Arnold.

CLASSIC!

Highlight of the book.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

i don't care what anyone else says, Before Dishonour is a great book. i especially love the scene with Calhoun (especially the 'don't forget to say 'engage'' gag) and then when Seven informs Nechayev and Jellico of 'Commodore' Picard's plans and her telling them that Mac 'promoted' Picard.

and PAD's kick at Richard Arnold.

Am I the only one who thinks Picard should have kept the promotion to Commodore?

 

[Starbreaker]

and PAD's kick at Richard Arnold.

CLASSIC!

Highlight of the book.

Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

i don't care what anyone else says, Before Dishonour is a great book. i especially love the scene with Calhoun (especially the 'don't forget to say 'engage'' gag) and then when Seven informs Nechayev and Jellico of 'Commodore' Picard's plans and her telling them that Mac 'promoted' Picard.

and PAD's kick at Richard Arnold.

Am I the only one who thinks Picard should have kept the promotion to Commodore?

Not at all. He wore that fauxmotion well. I like the idea of Picard having an admiral's authority but still riding a starship captain's saddle. Of course promoting Picard might preclude him butting heads with the brass and that's always fun. But then again Picard is a galactic hero and he deserves the prestige and respect of a promotion.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The mutiny was ourageous - but IMO in a good way.

Actually, the mutiny reminded me of several incidences in my work environment, over several decades. You work with a group of teachers under a principal and everything goes along swimmingly for months/years - and the next thing you know, someone is calling in the union over a problem you never saw coming and the staff splits down the middle - which side to choose? Very often, that line of demarcation is between the oldies and the newbies. Or the insiders and the isolates. And some former insiders can easily become isolates.

I really felt for Kadohata. The mutiny was meant to make us feel uncomfortable. Kadohata was the outsider, although in some ways she was assumed to be an insider, and yet she'd also been on leave. Her recent pregnancy, and distance from the command crew, gave her new insights she probably wished she didn't have. Obey several admirals or obey your captain. Horrible choice.

I totally related to that mutiny. I feel like I've lived through similar circumstances, but over much smaller issues than life and death, many times. And then, incident over, you have to go back to working with everyone for the good of the students in your care.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Can someone enlighten me?

It's been a while since I read it, so my memory's a little hazy, but I believe that there's a line about how the Borg girl from 'Vendetta' sparked debates at Starfleet about how they didn't believe Borg drones had gender and Seven marvelling at the stupidity. It's a reference to how Vendetta was required to have a disclaimer of 'this is the author's interpretation, and thus not anything that the show is required to uphold' and Richard Arnold basically saying 'no, the Borg have no gender, they're all sexless.'

At least, I think that's it.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Can someone enlighten me?

It's been a while since I read it, so my memory's a little hazy, but I believe that there's a line about how the Borg girl from 'Vendetta' sparked debates at Starfleet about how they didn't believe Borg drones had gender and Seven marvelling at the stupidity. It's a reference to how Vendetta was required to have a disclaimer of 'this is the author's interpretation, and thus not anything that the show is required to uphold' and Richard Arnold basically saying 'no, the Borg have no gender, they're all sexless.'

At least, I think that's it.

That sums it up pretty well.

 

[chelly]

I learn something new in here every day.

On the Mutiny I found it interesting that it was similar to the mutiny by the MACO in the Destiny books. The captain wants to do one thing (the correct one or the only one they can see that is correct) but various people want to do the opposite and are very violent to to get their way. I thought I saw similarities between Leybenzon and the MACO leader in both stories. (personality, attitude willingness to hurt someone )

 

[JD]

Yeah, but those traits are pretty common in mutiny stories in general.

 

[Valin]

After reading these posts, I'm going to have to pick up this novel.