Before & After

[Melakon]

If it weren't for that stupid 'sexiest man' list we would have gotten both Kes and Seven.

If Harry had been written out, Seven probably would have been a guy just to maintain the gender balance. Braga initially conceived the character as male.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I *really* want to know what they were thinking when they had Seven (in "Year of Hell") re-enact Kes' "Before and After" scene in the Jefferies' tube with the Krenim torpedo. They're both in there for different reasons, but doing the same thing at the same time. It's mind boggling.

 

[R. Star]

It was a money saving tactic. They didn't have to pay a writer to write a new scene.

 

[F. King Daniel]

 

[Melakon]

They already had that "torpedo stuck in the hull" prop and wanted to use it again?

 

[Johnny]

In Star Trek when the time gets altered the effects of the original timeline stay in the new timeline.

I don't know from a production standpoint, but I believe (Based on vague memories of people telling me so) that Year of Hell was planned to be the end of third season cliffhanger. I guess if you want to resolve discrepancies you can say that Kes's memories of the future accelerated her transformation, and if you recall in The Gift her telekinesis saved Seven's life. So you could say in the original timeline, Kes never left, Seven died in The Gift, and the original Year of Hell took place in the original Krenim timeline before the first temporal inversion.

20 posts, and only 1 that says anything useful...wow.

What interests me is that it wasn't just mentioned but ships were designed for the Krenem and battles shown, albeit short snippits. Interesting that they seemed to 'plan' so far ahead in what seems a step away from conventional trek story writing. I would have expected that year of hell just be ignored and the story to evolve in a different way. It was refreshing to see the cross referencing.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The events of Before and After, when Kes provided a report on all she could remember about the Krenim and their temporal weapons was expunged from the databanks because it didn't feature Seven.

If the Borg Blonde isn't a key role in the episode (as either the problem and/or solution) then the events of those episodes mean nothing--which is why all other characters except for Seven, Janeway and the EMH become little more window dressing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

20 posts, and only 1 that says anything useful...wow.

Thankyou for calling us all assholes, it's really refreshing.

This wasn't planning way ahead.

Before and After was setting up the the season cliffhanger which was only a month away.

If Kes hadn't left, were they planning on using the exact same footage like they did in Babylon 5 during flashbacks and timetravel?

 

[R. Star]

20 posts, and only 1 that I agree with...wow.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Johnny]

20 posts, and only 1 that I agree with...wow.

Fixed it for you.

Haha! Maybe '...only 1 that is on topic...' would be closer to the truth!

 

[KaraBear]

do you guys want actual production info on the episode? Hubs and I are rewatching the show and after every episode we are going to Memory Alpha to look up any behind the scenes info about it. We just finished Year of Hell and there are some interesting bits of info there connecting Year of Hell with Before and After

here are some of the more interesting tid bits....
BEFORE AND AFTER

This episode introduces the Krenim, who eventually reappeared in the two-parter "Year of Hell" and "Year of Hell, Part II". Although Star Trek: Voyager's producers originally intended that two-parter to bridge Seasons Three and Four, they ultimately decided to postpone the "Year of Hell" duology and replace it with the episodes "Scorpion" and "Scorpion, Part II". (Star Trek Monthly issue 34, p. 12) This was due to the planned addition of Seven of Nine to the starship Voyager's crew. (Delta Quadrant, p. 207) Owing to not only the eventual placement of the "Year of Hell" two-parter but also to Kes' departure in the fourth season (in the episode "The Gift" – which takes place immediately after the "Scorpion" duology), Kes is no longer aboard Voyager during the "Year of Hell" two-parter, in which her place in the Jefferies tube is instead taken by Seven of Nine

YEAR OF HELL

This episode's plot was primarily influenced by "Before and After", a third season installment of Star Trek: Voyager that gives a preview of this episode by featuring both the Krenim and hints of a timeline in which Voyager undergoes the "Year of Hell", becoming badly damaged in the process. Episode co-writer Brannon Braga explained, "Although I don't like to do episodes that rely on other episodes for exposition, I loved the phrase 'Year of Hell' that Ken Biller came up with for that episode. I loved the look of the show. I loved the look of a destroyed Voyager. I wanted to do a whole two-parter like that." This episode's other co-writer, Joe Menosky, remembered, "This started with the phrase 'Year of Hell' which came out of 'Before and After'. Brannon loved the image [....] The optical of the hull of the ship messed up in 'Before and After' because we were being attacked by the Krenim [...] stayed, especially in Brannon's mind. He kept saying, 'I just want to wreck the ship.'" (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 108) Menosky also related, "What Brannon often does is come up with an image before there's even a story idea [....] The imagistic inspiration for 'Year of Hell', without which it wouldn't have been created as an episode, was the ship all wrecked, a great look." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 75)

Tuvok was originally to have been more badly wounded in this episode rather than losing only his eyesight. "We were actually going to have him blind and missing a leg," Brannon Braga remembered, "and we were going to do a Forrest Gump-type of digital effect. He was going to have many physical problems, but for production reasons, we ended up with just blindness." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 100)

this episode was originally to have been Star Trek: Voyager's third season finale. (Star Trek Monthly issue 34, p. 12; Delta Quadrant, p. 207) The episode was given some minor rewrites, with many Kes lines given to Seven of Nine.

Although "Before and After"'s depiction of the "Year of Hell" is seen from the viewpoint of Kes – as she travels through time – her timeline in that episode is not related to any timeline seen in this episode, as Kes is obviously no longer aboard the ship at this point (having left in the earlier fourth season installment "The Gift"). Despite the differences between the timeline featured in "Before and After" and the one shown in this episode, Brannon Braga believed that fans would nonetheless understand that this episode shows an event first depicted in "Before and After". "The fans will recognize that that's what this is," Braga predicted. When asked whether Kes' absence from this episode's two-parter was problematic, Braga replied, "Not at all, because the episode also deals with [Annorax's extremely powerful influence on time]." (Star Trek Monthly issue 34, p. 15)

At the end of "Before and After", Janeway asks Kes to reveal any information on the Krenim that Kes learned during her time jumps and Kes agrees to file a report. Even though the dialog from "Year of Hell" doesn't directly reflect on any of the knowledge Kes shared, Tuvok picks up on the Krenim torpedo being in temporal flux as soon as the first torpedo hits, thus proving that Kes' report was indeed put to good use even though it wasn't officially acknowledged. However, it is unclear why the report that Kes was supposed to file wouldn't have included the precise chronoton frequency which would have enabled Voyager to implement their own time-flux shielding. This information was needed to fix Kes' condition in "Before and After". In this timeline, however, the frequency of the torpedo is still 1.47 microseconds, as it was in the earlier episode, with Seven of Nine crawling through the Jefferies tube rather than Kes.

 

[Johnny]

do you guys want actual production info on the episode? Hubs and I are rewatching the show and after every episode we are going to Memory Alpha to look up any behind the scenes info about it. We just finished Year of Hell and there are some interesting bits of info there connecting Year of Hell with Before and After

here are some of the more interesting tid bits....
BEFORE AND AFTER

This episode introduces the Krenim, who eventually reappeared in the two-parter "Year of Hell" and "Year of Hell, Part II". Although Star Trek: Voyager's producers originally intended that two-parter to bridge Seasons Three and Four, they ultimately decided to postpone the "Year of Hell" duology and replace it with the episodes "Scorpion" and "Scorpion, Part II". (Star Trek Monthly issue 34, p. 12) This was due to the planned addition of Seven of Nine to the starship Voyager's crew. (Delta Quadrant, p. 207) Owing to not only the eventual placement of the "Year of Hell" two-parter but also to Kes' departure in the fourth season (in the episode "The Gift" – which takes place immediately after the "Scorpion" duology), Kes is no longer aboard Voyager during the "Year of Hell" two-parter, in which her place in the Jefferies tube is instead taken by Seven of Nine

YEAR OF HELL

This episode's plot was primarily influenced by "Before and After", a third season installment of Star Trek: Voyager that gives a preview of this episode by featuring both the Krenim and hints of a timeline in which Voyager undergoes the "Year of Hell", becoming badly damaged in the process. Episode co-writer Brannon Braga explained, "Although I don't like to do episodes that rely on other episodes for exposition, I loved the phrase 'Year of Hell' that Ken Biller came up with for that episode. I loved the look of the show. I loved the look of a destroyed Voyager. I wanted to do a whole two-parter like that." This episode's other co-writer, Joe Menosky, remembered, "This started with the phrase 'Year of Hell' which came out of 'Before and After'. Brannon loved the image [....] The optical of the hull of the ship messed up in 'Before and After' because we were being attacked by the Krenim [...] stayed, especially in Brannon's mind. He kept saying, 'I just want to wreck the ship.'" (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 108) Menosky also related, "What Brannon often does is come up with an image before there's even a story idea [....] The imagistic inspiration for 'Year of Hell', without which it wouldn't have been created as an episode, was the ship all wrecked, a great look." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 30, No. 9/10, p. 75)

Although "Before and After"'s depiction of the "Year of Hell" is seen from the viewpoint of Kes – as she travels through time – her timeline in that episode is not related to any timeline seen in this episode, as Kes is obviously no longer aboard the ship at this point (having left in the earlier fourth season installment "The Gift"). Despite the differences between the timeline featured in "Before and After" and the one shown in this episode, Brannon Braga believed that fans would nonetheless understand that this episode shows an event first depicted in "Before and After". "The fans will recognize that that's what this is," Braga predicted. When asked whether Kes' absence from this episode's two-parter was problematic, Braga replied, "Not at all, because the episode also deals with [Annorax's extremely powerful influence on time]." (Star Trek Monthly issue 34, p. 15)

At the end of "Before and After", Janeway asks Kes to reveal any information on the Krenim that Kes learned during her time jumps and Kes agrees to file a report. Even though the dialog from "Year of Hell" doesn't directly reflect on any of the knowledge Kes shared, Tuvok picks up on the Krenim torpedo being in temporal flux as soon as the first torpedo hits, thus proving that Kes' report was indeed put to good use even though it wasn't officially acknowledged. However, it is unclear why the report that Kes was supposed to file wouldn't have included the precise chronoton frequency which would have enabled Voyager to implement their own time-flux shielding. This information was needed to fix Kes' condition in "Before and After". In this timeline, however, the frequency of the torpedo is still 1.47 microseconds, as it was in the earlier episode, with Seven of Nine crawling through the Jefferies tube rather than Kes.

Interesting stuff! Thinking back on it, it's intriguing that they didn't mention Kes' input. It's not like it would have been a difficult thing to include either.

I think Tuvok being blind would have been great if they'd kept it for the rest of the show.
J.

 

[KaraBear]

Also in that memory alpha page were some quotes from Tim Russ talking about the challenge of playing a blind character. As an actor he found it very difficult to talk to someone but not to look them in the eye

 

[R. Star]

I always wondered why they didn't just replicate a VISOR for Tuvok. Seems the small strain on a replicator with limited resources, which apparently you can recycle old material given Janeway's rejection of Chakotay's gift, would be worth it to have your tactical officer not relying on tactile interface... which has to be as power heavy over a given time as a single whirl of the replicator. Especially given you're under attack constantly.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Geordi's VISOR was because he was born without an optic nerve.

Bits of his brain were missing.

His parents had the same mum and dad.

They should have been able to clone new eyeballs for Tuvok and be done with it.

Here's the real drag.

Tuvok would rather be blind Tuvok and than a sighted Tuvix, unless he did ask Neelix to help a buddy out, and Neelix said "No".

Or maybe they went through with it, but Tuvix was still Blind.

"No, no, no, I'm back! I'm back! I don't mind being blind! You can't kill me again becau... I'm cool! I'm cool! Not like this, not like this AGAIN!"

 

[KaraBear]

Geordi's VISOR was because he was born without an optic nerve.

Bits of his brain were missing.

His parents had the same mum and dad.

They should have been able to clone new eyeballs for Tuvok and be done with it.

Here's the real drag.

Tuvok would rather be blind Tuvok and than a sighted Tuvix, unless he did ask Neelix to help a buddy out, and Neelix said "No".

Or maybe they went through with it, but Tuvix was still Blind.

with all the damage voyager went through, and the lack of a proper sickbay, it is possible they could't replicate something as complex and new eyes. If they hadn't reset he probably would have gotten new eyes once sickbay was back up and running

"No, no, no, I'm back! I'm back! I don't mind being blind! You can't kill me again becau... I'm cool! I'm cool! Not like this, not like this AGAIN!"

What does Neelix have to do with Tuvok not being blind?

 

[R. Star]

They should have been able to clone new eyeballs for Tuvok and be done with it.

Yeah, the Doctor made a new eye for Seven after she was Borg even if he implied it wasn't completely organic and she still had superior sight.

 

[KaraBear]

They should have been able to clone new eyeballs for Tuvok and be done with it.

Yeah, the Doctor made a new eye for Seven after she was Borg even if he implied it wasn't completely organic and she still had superior sight.

It's most likely that under normal circumstances replicating replacement eyes for Tuvok (depending on the damage) would be no big deal. But since the ship was heavily damaged and they didn't even have a functioning sickbay it's also likely they weren't capable of replicating something as complex as working eyeballs.

 

[R. Star]

Yet they can convert a watch into, by Janeway's own words, a pair of boots, a meal or a hypospray? Why is that possible but not an eyeball or VISOR. Seems you'd want your tactical officer to be able to see when he's picking what he's shooting at instead of hoping he feels the changes to the sensors.

 

[KaraBear]

Yet they can convert a watch into, by Janeway's own words, a pair of boots, a meal or a hypospray? Why is that possible but not an eyeball or VISOR. Seems you'd want your tactical officer to be able to see when he's picking what he's shooting at instead of hoping he feels the changes to the sensors.

well they're not directly converting a watch into boots. The watch would go back into bulk matter storage.

a pair of boots seems like it would be much simpler to create than a functional eye ball