BBK View of Trek XI

[Captain Randy Hall]

I wasn't sure what forum to post this in, but since it deals with Kirk, I've gone ahead and put it here. It was the logical thing to do.

I've menioned elsewhere that I'm not a fan of Generations, in which Kirk was killed ... twice. I could almost have accepted the first death since it was Captain Kirk saving the Enterprise. Instead, they dragged Kirk out of the Nexus so he could die at the hands of a test-tube jockey who looks like Sting on a bad hair day.

A number of fans got together and called ourselves Bring Back Kirk. We even had a newsletter going for a while (I wrote and edited it, so I should know.) I've been a tremendous fan of the Shatnerverse novels as well.

If there are any fans who wanted Kirk back, does this movie's (supposed) alternate timeline pretty much invalidate Generations? I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks, but especially those who like myself thought killing Kirk was a bad idea, and the decline in movie revenue since then shows that the big P made a big mistake.

Please no Kirk versus Picard stuff. As I've stated elsewhere in this forum, Kirk is the character I identified with most, and I'm wondering if Trek XI might be the fulfillment of Bring Back Kirk.

 

[Michael]

Everyone's gotta support our goal ...

 

[Christopher]

If there are any fans who wanted Kirk back, does this movie's (supposed) alternate timeline pretty much invalidate Generations?

That depends on what you mean by that. Since it is a (definite) alternate timeline, that means that the events of the original timeline still coexist alongside it; nothing is being erased. So GEN still occurred in the original continuity. However, since it it is an alternate timeline, that means that this Jim Kirk's future is undecided. He could get killed in a skirmish with the Klingons in 2267 or he could live to 150 and be a mentor to Jean-Luc Picard.

 

[Iowagirl]

I don't really care anymore about XI. If Abrams & Co. really wanted to BBK, they would've included Shatner. But from what I've read so far, I don't think they're interested in honouring TOS insofar as to take the golden opportunity to bring back ST's greatest hero.

An alternate timeline in the new film is fine with me, as I don't consider the new cast the "real" Kirk et al. anyway, but I don't think that means they will touch the BBK subject in any way, nor that we could draw any conclusions concerning Original Kirk from the events taking place in that alternate timeline.

As for Generations, I completely agree with you, Captain Hall. It was stupid and it was needless to let Kirk die. I for one have decided to ignore this part of "canon", I mean he didn't actually belong on Picard's Enterprise in the first place…

 

[Trevacious]

If Pike gets himself killed in Trek XI, then he'll never be fitted for a chair with a bleeper and the events of The Cage and The Menagerie will never happen for this Kirk and Spock.

Likewise, Enterprise-B, Captain Cameron and Generations might never happen in their future.

But nothing this movie does will invalidate those other stories. If you saw them and enjoyed them, that's valid. Don't bother trying to reconcile them as having the same continuity. New universe, new crew, aping the old but in no way identical.

"James T. Kirk was a great man. But that was another life."

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

If there are any fans who wanted Kirk back, does this movie's (supposed) alternate timeline pretty much invalidate Generations?

That depends on what you mean by that. Since it is a (definite) alternate timeline, that means that the events of the original timeline still coexist alongside it; nothing is being erased. So GEN still occurred in the original continuity. However, since it it is an alternate timeline, that means that this Jim Kirk's future is undecided. He could get killed in a skirmish with the Klingons in 2267 or he could live to 150 and be a mentor to Jean-Luc Picard.

I understand the thought, but is Trek XI the beginning of a whole new timeline, or will it merely affect the characters during the movie and dovetail into what we consider Classic Trek? On that side are the fans of everything that happened after this film. Will there be no DS9, no TNG, no Voyager?

I can understand those who assert that Enterprise will be the only series standing, but it seems a shame to ignore everything that's been established. I can imagine Trek fans in 40 years grumbling over a "reboot" that would wipe out what they have gotten out of the franchise.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

Everyone's gotta support our goal ...

You know, I wonder sometimes if the high casualty rate of some entertanment franchises is because those in charge hope that killing off a character will pique the curiosity of people who've left the show to come back.

There are times when I wonder if a small ratings spike is worth killing of some favorite character (and everyone has someone as his or favorite). By the way, I've spoken with fans who never knew that Kirk was beamed to that big starship in the sky because they heard negative reviews of Generations and didn't see it. Then the next movie got positive reviews to First Contact, which didn't mention of Kirk's death and just figured the torch was passed and Classic Trek was relegated to history.

And hey, good luck on getting Worf back! Anyone who wants to bring a favorite character back from limbo has my support.

 

[BillJ]

I never got the prupose of the 'Bring Back Kirk' folks and Jim Kirk is my favorite character. In timeline-A he has obviously bought the farm on Veridian III. Pretty open and shut. But to think that the character was never going to come back was short-sighted. This new timeline looks to be open-ended, but will he be the same Jim Kirk at the end of the day?

 

[Michael]

Everyone's gotta support our goal ...

You know, I wonder sometimes if the high casualty rate of some entertanment franchises is because those in charge hope that killing off a character will pique the curiosity of people who've left the show to come back.

There are times when I wonder if a small ratings spike is worth killing of some favorite character (and everyone has someone as his or favorite). By the way, I've spoken with fans who never knew that Kirk was beamed to that big starship in the sky because they heard negative reviews of Generations and didn't see it. Then the next movie got positive reviews to First Contact, which didn't mention of Kirk's death and just figured the torch was passed and Classic Trek was relegated to history.

And hey, good luck on getting Worf back! Anyone who wants to bring a favorite character back from limbo has my support.

Maybe I should have included a link to our official site: www.bringbackworf.com

 

[Cakes488]

I don't really care anymore about XI. If Abrams & Co. really wanted to BBK, they would've included Shatner. But from what I've read so far, I don't think they're interested in honouring TOS insofar as to take the golden opportunity to bring back ST's greatest hero.

An alternate timeline in the new film is fine with me, as I don't consider the new cast the "real" Kirk et al. anyway, but I don't think that means they will touch the BBK subject in any way, nor that we could draw any conclusions concerning Original Kirk from the events taking place in that alternate timeline.

As for Generations, I completely agree with you, Captain Hall. It was stupid and it was needless to let Kirk die. I for one have decided to ignore this part of "canon", I mean he didn't actually belong on Picard's Enterprise in the first place…

How dare they not include Shatner...I'm seriously outraged by this...the guy is still alive he should be included for cripes sake it's not like there is that much time that we have left with him. I'm sorry but he could of been in this stupid movie somewhere...what he can't play a friggin starfleet instructer for god sake...what about playing the fake kirks grandfather with some grandfatherly advise and shit....that could of been a good angle dammit!

 

[Kelso]

I think we need more threads in this forum to discuss the new movie.

That would be awesome.

 

[Kirk1980]

Kelso, just because you got taken out by some animate hoses doesn't mean you have to be so cantankerous.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I said it way back in the day, and I'll say it again, THERE SHALL BE NO PEACE UNTIL KIRK LIVES!

 

[Iowagirl]

I don't really care anymore about XI. If Abrams & Co. really wanted to BBK, they would've included Shatner. But from what I've read so far, I don't think they're interested in honouring TOS insofar as to take the golden opportunity to bring back ST's greatest hero.

An alternate timeline in the new film is fine with me, as I don't consider the new cast the "real" Kirk et al. anyway, but I don't think that means they will touch the BBK subject in any way, nor that we could draw any conclusions concerning Original Kirk from the events taking place in that alternate timeline.

As for Generations, I completely agree with you, Captain Hall. It was stupid and it was needless to let Kirk die. I for one have decided to ignore this part of "canon", I mean he didn't actually belong on Picard's Enterprise in the first place…

How dare they not include Shatner...I'm seriously outraged by this...the guy is still alive he should be included for cripes sake it's not like there is that much time that we have left with him. I'm sorry but he could of been in this stupid movie somewhere...what he can't play a friggin starfleet instructer for god sake...what about playing the fake kirks grandfather with some grandfatherly advise and shit....that could of been a good angle dammit!

Yeah, and what about playing that famous Captain they used to have on TOS...lemme see...oh yeah, James T. Kirk it was, I think... If they had actually wanted it, it would've been possible - they could have found a way, despite Generations. And yes, I'm seriously outraged by this, as well, and I can be pretty resentful...

 

[Amaris]

I love William Shatner. However, there is a big chance that he's not in this movie. That being said, I can move on because it's not even close to being a dealbreaker for me. This movie looks great, and I can't wait to see it. With Shatner or without.

J.

 

[Duane]

If memory serves (and it usually doesn't) one of the writers of the new Trek movie said that within Trek lore it is explained psuedo-scientifically that there are an infinite number of timelines, and the new movie is exploring one of them.

I understand where he is coming from but I still prefer the simplicity of one true timeline which get's messed up on occasion and needs to be fixed (COTEOF, for example.)

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

I never got the prupose of the 'Bring Back Kirk' folks and Jim Kirk is my favorite character. In timeline-A he has obviously bought the farm on Veridian III. Pretty open and shut. But to think that the character was never going to come back was short-sighted. This new timeline looks to be open-ended, but will he be the same Jim Kirk at the end of the day?

But you're forgetting the little item they included in the movie in case the reaction to Kirk's death was too hot for them to handle.

Remember that Guinan had half of her life in the Nexus? Well, what if Kirk left a shadow of himself in the cosmic thread of shampoo. Now that the Kirk part that went back into "our" universe is dead, the other part could leave the Nexus and re-aminate Kirk' s body.

I'll add something of my thoughts. What if the Nexus was traveling in the Gamma Quadrant and was disintegrating? Starfleet would send the Enterprise E to go through the wormhole and try to recover whatever is left.

When they get to the Nexus, only a few lifeforms are registered, so the order goes out to bring what's left to that ship. And wouldn't you know it, one of those is one James T. Kirk.

On their way back through the wormhole, Sisko appears and tells them that the return of Kirk would herald the war that could spell the end of the Federation.

I realize that re-introducing both Kirk and Sisko to the timeline could be a story in itself, but I'd rather have that than the best captain in Starfleet being taken out by some wierd descendant of Sting!

 

[Iowagirl]

I said it way back in the day, and I'll say it again, THERE SHALL BE NO PEACE UNTIL KIRK LIVES!

Exactly, Captain - I second that.

And whoever that boy Pine pretends to be - he'll never be Kirk!

 

[BillJ]

I never got the prupose of the 'Bring Back Kirk' folks and Jim Kirk is my favorite character. In timeline-A he has obviously bought the farm on Veridian III. Pretty open and shut. But to think that the character was never going to come back was short-sighted. This new timeline looks to be open-ended, but will he be the same Jim Kirk at the end of the day?

But you're forgetting the little item they included in the movie in case the reaction to Kirk's death was too hot for them to handle.

Remember that Guinan had half of her life in the Nexus? Well, what if Kirk left a shadow of himself in the cosmic thread of shampoo. Now that the Kirk part that went back into "our" universe is dead, the other part could leave the Nexus and re-aminate Kirk' s body.

I'll add something of my thoughts. What if the Nexus was traveling in the Gamma Quadrant and was disintegrating? Starfleet would send the Enterprise E to go through the wormhole and try to recover whatever is left.

When they get to the Nexus, only a few lifeforms are registered, so the order goes out to bring what's left to that ship. And wouldn't you know it, one of those is one James T. Kirk.

On their way back through the wormhole, Sisko appears and tells them that the return of Kirk would herald the war that could spell the end of the Federation.

I realize that re-introducing both Kirk and Sisko to the timeline could be a story in itself, but I'd rather have that than the best captain in Starfleet being taken out by some wierd descendant of Sting!

I'll never again wonder why non-Trek fans think we take this all way too seriously.

 

[Kirk1980]

Oh, Bill.... do you think any of us take this stuff seriously?

And if you didn't kinda take Trek seriously...why post here at all?!