Croc is certainly outlandish, but he does exist:
http://www.thelizardman.com/
I couldn't see him as more than a cameo, though; something like Mr. Zsasz in Begins.
Batman's Rogues gallery in the Nolan-Verse
- Thread starter Capt_Pickirk
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Croc is certainly outlandish, but he does exist:
http://www.thelizardman.com/
I couldn't see him as more than a cameo, though; something like Mr. Zsasz in Begins.
The Mad Hatter: He could work with very little modification from the Batman: The Animated Series incarnation, just have him use mind-controlling drugs on his victims instead of brainwave inducing microchips.
Bat-Mite: Make him a circus freak who's obsessed with Batman and have him played by the guy who played Mini-Me in Austin Powers.
Like sodium penthahol or something?? That could work.
Which is the real challenge if we're playing around with this - not just how the Rogues would fit into the Nolan universe, but how would they fit into a Nolan-verse story? His movies have been quite clever at creating a coherent Gotham City that feels like it works as a real city, and combining several villains far more successfuly than other projects.
With rumors on that Detroit and New Orleans will be sites of the filming of the next movie, sounds like Nolan is going to up the urban decay of Gotham considerably. Perhaps something along the lines of, the citizens of Gotham are demoralized by the murder of their one trustworthy and inspiring public official, dashing DA Harvey Dent, and the revelation that the Batman is a vicious killer, plus the trauma the city went through under the Joker's rampage. The mob is furious at how close they came to going down and, with Lao's and Dent's deaths and the case against them destroyed, are back on the streets with a vengeance. Inspired by the Joker and the general sense of chaos gripping the city, psychopaths who may have been existing quietly in the city for years are suddenly triggered, and disturbing crimes begin to pop up all over the city. The police force is split between corrupt cops making the most of the situation, and good cops under extreme public pressure to bring in the Batman, who is generally blamed for the out of control state of things.
As has been speculated for the next movie, Dr. Hugo Strange emerges on the scene as a brilliant FBI profiler/ criminal psychologist doing the talk show circuit and then asked to consult with the police on the Batman task force and some of the other freakish crimes. Suffering from extreme Narcissistic Personality Disorder he becomes obsessed with manipulating the situation in Gotham to maintain his fame and position as the expert on Gotham's escalating crime problem.
He sometimes secretly frequents the Iceberg Lounge, where the owner, Oswald Cobblepot, is an amusing, charming, corrupt information broker of the underworld. A la Louis Renault from Casablanca, Penguin, as he is called for his tuxes and pear-shaped body, is without loyalty and will cooperate with criminals or the law as he finds useful to enrich himself. He never gets his hands dirty enough to fear prosecution, but does know what muscle to hire when needed - this may be anyone from Dr. Jonathon Crane who still slinks about peddling his insanity-inducing drugs to expert thug Killer Croc (I like the body mod fanatic idea for him - perhaps he has a nearly full-body crocodile tattoo) to the cold-blooded assassin for hire known only as Deadshot. (or these characters could be associated with specific mob gangs - see below)
Penguin's got a lot to trade in these days because after the Lao experience and the death of the heads of two major gangs (Gambol and Sal), the various organized crime groups are no longer observing the spheres of influence they used to respect in Gotham, and an all-out gang war has heated up, leaving the normal citizens under seige. Ostensibly out to solve this problem, Strange instead manipulates information through Penguin to sustain the war, forcing the Batman (his greatest obsession is to discover the Batman's true identity so he can understand his psychology, write a book and retire rich and respected) to be out in force night after night, giving him lots of data from which to work.
That's all I've got for the moment, if anyone else wants to try to weave any of the other Rogues into this. Feel free to modify the above as seems Nolan-ish to you...
He can also be a big fish importer which could lead to a scene at the docks and debut a sleek bat boat.
I could see the batboat being used for dock work
Here's my thoughts on how some of my favorite Batman villains might be able to fit into the universe that Christopher Nolan has created:
The Penguin
Most people who have tried to 'Nolan-ize' Penguin have made him a simple mob boss with a fascination with/fetish for umbrellas and birds, but my take on the character is to make him a toned-down version, stylistically, of the Freak!Penguin introduced by Tim Burton in Batman Returns and played by Danny DeVito. What I mean by this is that you retain the disfigured/deformed nature of the Penguin's physical features, but do away with anything that takes him into over-the-top, circus-freak territory (such as the eating of raw fish and living in the sewers with genetically engineered penguins), and make his motivations revolve around his own personal psyche issues and the way that he perceives the world in relation to his deformities/disfigurations (similar, in some ways, to the way that Nolan and Heath Ledger characterized the Joker). Nolan won't ever use the character, unfortunately, but, if the WB decides to keep the more realistic tone established by Nolan in future, post-Nolan films, I could see a future director or directors deciding to use the character.
Clayface
My favorite version of Clayface (the Batman: TAS version) is, unfortunately, an impossibility in terms of fitting Nolan's Bat-verse, but I don't think it's impossible for any version of the character to exist in Nolan's universe. It wouldn't be that difficult to make Clayface an assassin or spy who uses an experimental cosmetic compound (in a world where you have the existence of stuff like memory cloth and sonar waves, stuff like a 'living mask' wouldn't be entirely out of the question) to change his appearance at will. You could even make him a member of the League of Shadows if you wished.
Harley Quinn
I liked the way that the short-lived Birds of Prey TV series characterized Harley Quinn, although, for the purpsoes of the Nolan-verse, I think the best approach to utilizing the character would be, as in the case of Batman: The Animated Series, to make her a female version of the Joker, particularly the Joker as played to brilliant perfection by Heath Ledger. I don't think Nolan himself will use the character, but if the WB does decide to keep the more realistic tone of Nolan's films in future, post-Nolan films, she is definitely a character that I could see being brought in.
The Phantasm
Andrea Beaumont is a villain that is, quite frankly, tailor-made to fit into Nolan's Bat-verse, and is a character that I've mentioned I would love to see him include in TDKR, since she fits both of the two criteria that have been set out in terms of the roles that Nolan is casting for (a love interest and a villain). She also makes sense in terms of the 'status of things' in terms of the political and social climate in Nolan's version of Gotham as established by The Dark Knight, and is a villain that could be lifted, wholesale, from the source material (Batman: The Animated Series) in which she appears.
Catwoman
Most people seem to think of a Nolan-ized version of Catwoman as being a villain, but, for me, the perfect utilization of the character in terms of Nolan's universe would be to use her as a 'stand-in-' for Batman, especially after the events of The Dark Knight. Characterization-wise, I think she works best if you draw on those elements of her character which classify/identify her as the female equivalent to Bruce/Batman, and make them the 'core' of who she is and the role she plays.
Mr. Freeze
Christopher Nolan might feel otherwise, but I don't think Mr. Freeze isn't as impossible to adapt into his (Nolan's) more realistic universe as one might assume; cryonic technology does actually exist, and, in order to make it fit Nolan's universe, all you would have to do would be to make a 'realistic extraploation' in terms of the technology as it exists now and where/how it might exist in the future. Chracterization-wise, the character would need to be lifted as much as possible from Batman: The Animated Series, although you might want to tone down his obsession a bit so as to make him and his motivations more believable and less over-the-top.
The Riddler
Most people that I've seen try to 'Nolan-ize' The Riddler have made him a serial killer or something, but, personally, I think that you could very easily and feasibly adapt either the Frank Gorshin or Jim Carrey versions of the character into the Nolan-verse, although you would definitely have to tone down some of the flamboyant, over-the-top aspects of how both Gorshin and Carrey used their acting talent to bring the character(s) to life. Speaking of Carrey, one of my 'pipe-dreams' is in fact to see him 'reprise' a less overtly flashy and over-the-top crazy version of the Riddler character in Nolan's universe, and, although it isn't going to happen with Nolan in charge of the franchise, it's something that I think you definitely might be able to pull off in future films should WB decide to retain the realistic tone of the universe that Nolan established, provided Carrey himself was open to the idea.
The Penguin
Most people who have tried to 'Nolan-ize' Penguin have made him a simple mob boss with a fascination with/fetish for umbrellas and birds, but my take on the character is to make him a toned-down version, stylistically, of the Freak!Penguin introduced by Tim Burton in Batman Returns and played by Danny DeVito. What I mean by this is that you retain the disfigured/deformed nature of the Penguin's physical features, but do away with anything that takes him into over-the-top, circus-freak territory (such as the eating of raw fish and living in the sewers with genetically engineered penguins), and make his motivations revolve around his own personal psyche issues and the way that he perceives the world in relation to his deformities/disfigurations (similar, in some ways, to the way that Nolan and Heath Ledger characterized the Joker). Nolan won't ever use the character, unfortunately, but, if the WB decides to keep the more realistic tone established by Nolan in future, post-Nolan films, I could see a future director or directors deciding to use the character.
Clayface
My favorite version of Clayface (the Batman: TAS version) is, unfortunately, an impossibility in terms of fitting Nolan's Bat-verse, but I don't think it's impossible for any version of the character to exist in Nolan's universe. It wouldn't be that difficult to make Clayface an assassin or spy who uses an experimental cosmetic compound (in a world where you have the existence of stuff like memory cloth and sonar waves, stuff like a 'living mask' wouldn't be entirely out of the question) to change his appearance at will. You could even make him a member of the League of Shadows if you wished.
Harley Quinn
I liked the way that the short-lived Birds of Prey TV series characterized Harley Quinn, although, for the purpsoes of the Nolan-verse, I think the best approach to utilizing the character would be, as in the case of Batman: The Animated Series, to make her a female version of the Joker, particularly the Joker as played to brilliant perfection by Heath Ledger. I don't think Nolan himself will use the character, but if the WB does decide to keep the more realistic tone of Nolan's films in future, post-Nolan films, she is definitely a character that I could see being brought in.
The Phantasm
Andrea Beaumont is a villain that is, quite frankly, tailor-made to fit into Nolan's Bat-verse, and is a character that I've mentioned I would love to see him include in TDKR, since she fits both of the two criteria that have been set out in terms of the roles that Nolan is casting for (a love interest and a villain). She also makes sense in terms of the 'status of things' in terms of the political and social climate in Nolan's version of Gotham as established by The Dark Knight, and is a villain that could be lifted, wholesale, from the source material (Batman: The Animated Series) in which she appears.
Catwoman
Most people seem to think of a Nolan-ized version of Catwoman as being a villain, but, for me, the perfect utilization of the character in terms of Nolan's universe would be to use her as a 'stand-in-' for Batman, especially after the events of The Dark Knight. Characterization-wise, I think she works best if you draw on those elements of her character which classify/identify her as the female equivalent to Bruce/Batman, and make them the 'core' of who she is and the role she plays.
Mr. Freeze
Christopher Nolan might feel otherwise, but I don't think Mr. Freeze isn't as impossible to adapt into his (Nolan's) more realistic universe as one might assume; cryonic technology does actually exist, and, in order to make it fit Nolan's universe, all you would have to do would be to make a 'realistic extraploation' in terms of the technology as it exists now and where/how it might exist in the future. Chracterization-wise, the character would need to be lifted as much as possible from Batman: The Animated Series, although you might want to tone down his obsession a bit so as to make him and his motivations more believable and less over-the-top.
The Riddler
Most people that I've seen try to 'Nolan-ize' The Riddler have made him a serial killer or something, but, personally, I think that you could very easily and feasibly adapt either the Frank Gorshin or Jim Carrey versions of the character into the Nolan-verse, although you would definitely have to tone down some of the flamboyant, over-the-top aspects of how both Gorshin and Carrey used their acting talent to bring the character(s) to life. Speaking of Carrey, one of my 'pipe-dreams' is in fact to see him 'reprise' a less overtly flashy and over-the-top crazy version of the Riddler character in Nolan's universe, and, although it isn't going to happen with Nolan in charge of the franchise, it's something that I think you definitely might be able to pull off in future films should WB decide to retain the realistic tone of the universe that Nolan established, provided Carrey himself was open to the idea.
I'd like to see Harley Quinn played by Gigi Edgely (Chiana from Farscape) as maybe a Joker stand in basically. They could keep her origin nearly intact from Mad Love - although I do think that she and Poison Ivy could be an interesting duo. With Ivy being an environmentalist/Al Gore worshipping/hybrid pushing hippie chick who sees all the crime, corruption and violence in Gotham as hurting the environment. Teaming up with Harley partially because she's studied Joker extensively in prison and basically sees her methods of violence a means to an end.
Penquin is an almost must have - I like the above idea of keeping a sort of Burton-esque Penquin - but keeping the more B:TAS form of him, as basically an eccentric bird lover, who happens to have a taste for wearing tuxedos and shaped like a penquin. But I'd keep him a tad more unhinged in private - not quite as OTT as DeVito's but twisted. Maybe instead of being hideously deformed - he's just a rather short man with a rather long beaklike nose and webbed fingers that resemble flippers when he wears gloves. Information broker, Casablanca type does fit the character.
Killer Croc - he'd be interesting, Batman hasn't really gone up against a really TOUGH character in the Nolan-verse yet. Someone that towers over him and can basically kick his ass from here to Metropolis.
Catwoman - I think she works best as a sort of anti-hero/Robin Hood type character than an out and out villaness. I'd ditch the prostitute angle though. Although, I think I could see her as being a sort of well heeled girl from a good family, who's family was killed during earlier mob wars and basically took everything they had, from businesses to property to baubles. Possibly even went away to underake a career as an Olympic gymnast - which could help explain how she can move the way she does. Works as a cat burgler stealing from the mob bosses and criminals that stole from her family and giving part of her 'take' to charities. Sets herself up as a 'do gooder' as Selina Kyle, attracts the attention of Bruce Wayne, but only because she's going to rob Wayne Industries because they bought up one of her family's companies. Bruce and Selina meet up in their alter egos and fight briefly, the masks come off and basically she becomes Catwoman as more of a persona than just a nickname.
Plus it lets someone else fight Harley Quinn or Poison Ivy without having Batman hit girls LOL
Penquin is an almost must have - I like the above idea of keeping a sort of Burton-esque Penquin - but keeping the more B:TAS form of him, as basically an eccentric bird lover, who happens to have a taste for wearing tuxedos and shaped like a penquin. But I'd keep him a tad more unhinged in private - not quite as OTT as DeVito's but twisted. Maybe instead of being hideously deformed - he's just a rather short man with a rather long beaklike nose and webbed fingers that resemble flippers when he wears gloves. Information broker, Casablanca type does fit the character.
Killer Croc - he'd be interesting, Batman hasn't really gone up against a really TOUGH character in the Nolan-verse yet. Someone that towers over him and can basically kick his ass from here to Metropolis.
Catwoman - I think she works best as a sort of anti-hero/Robin Hood type character than an out and out villaness. I'd ditch the prostitute angle though. Although, I think I could see her as being a sort of well heeled girl from a good family, who's family was killed during earlier mob wars and basically took everything they had, from businesses to property to baubles. Possibly even went away to underake a career as an Olympic gymnast - which could help explain how she can move the way she does. Works as a cat burgler stealing from the mob bosses and criminals that stole from her family and giving part of her 'take' to charities. Sets herself up as a 'do gooder' as Selina Kyle, attracts the attention of Bruce Wayne, but only because she's going to rob Wayne Industries because they bought up one of her family's companies. Bruce and Selina meet up in their alter egos and fight briefly, the masks come off and basically she becomes Catwoman as more of a persona than just a nickname.
Plus it lets someone else fight Harley Quinn or Poison Ivy without having Batman hit girls LOL
ooh I've had another idea!!
What would BATMAN BEYOND be like in the nolan-verse???
Nevermind, I'll be quiet now
What would BATMAN BEYOND be like in the nolan-verse???
Nevermind, I'll be quiet now
You don't need to be quiet. Here's my initial thoughts in terms of how Batman Beyond might look/work within the constraints of the Nolan-verse:
Since Terry McGinnis and the society in which he operates is very much more technologically-dependent than the Gotham City which Nolan introduced in Batman Begins, explaining his tech as Batman would be even more important, in terms of grounding the 'future Gotham' as much in reality as possible.
In terms of the Batman Beyond rogues gallery, I think you could very easily adapt the following villains to fit the more realistic constraints of Nolan's universe:
Derek Powers (pre-Blight)
The Jokerz
Shriek
Spellbinder
Stalker
Curare
Mad Stan
Charlie "Big Time" Bigelow
The Royal Flush Gang
Willie Watt
Terminal
Ma, Howard, and Slims Mayhem
Kobra
I wouldn't have the city with everyone driving flying cars or using laser guns. Keep it with some realism, even if it is set in the future. Well, maybe the very rich have flying cars or something.
Also would there be some way of combining the pilot episode of Batman Beyond with Return of the Joker somehow, I had some ideas a while back but I kinda hit a corner with them.
Also would there be some way of combining the pilot episode of Batman Beyond with Return of the Joker somehow, I had some ideas a while back but I kinda hit a corner with them.
Judging by the list of actresses (Keira Knightley, Anne Hathaway, Jessica Biel, Kate Mara, Charlotte Riley, and Gemma Arterton)that has come out, I'm starting to think that our female characters will be Selina Kyle/Catwoman and Talia al Ghoul. From what little I know of them, both of them could easily be a love interest and or villain. Although I'm really hoping that Harley Quinn pops up somewhere, since her inclusion would be a perfect way to continue the Joker storyline without having to recast the character.
Batman shouldn't have a problem with hitting a woman if it is to protect himself. If you attack Batman you should expect to be beaten up.
Bringing in Batgirl just so a girl can hit Poison Ivy was one of the reasons Batman and Robin sucked.
Even then that is something around reason #14 for why B&R sucked so bad.
I'd prefer the Penguin be a short fat guy who likes nice suits. No funky hands or bird fetish. Yeah they call Cobblepott "the Penguin", but he doesn't like it all that much.
Catwoman is easy. She's a catburgler with a nice assortment of gadgets. ( Some stolen WayneTech?) Wasnt the character called the Cat when she first appeared? Seems to me her being female and a burgler is enough for the audience to make the Catwoman connection. Maybe toss in a pet cat to be sure.
The Riddler. The character is a chance for Nolan's Batman to show he's the World's Greatest Detective and not a just Gadget Ninja. Make the Riddler an arrogant so and so who likes to taunt the police ( and Batman) with clues. Not a nutter or a second rate Joker, but a guy who's every bit as smart as Batman. We'd need a second villain to do the "heavy lifting".
Hugo Strange. More of a psychological villain than a psycho. I've always like the Englehart & Rogers storyline from the 70s over what came later. Might be some good source material there.
Clayface. The actor turned assassin angle mentioned by others sounds good. Washed up actors gotta work too.
A few fun angles could be played out. Karlo disguising himself as the Joker or Two-face. Or Him being Fox or Gordon through out the film but Batman and we aren't aware till the end. ( but with clues planted ala Sixth Sense)
Deadshot. In his first appearence he was a rival of Batman and Bruce Wayne. A millionaire turned vigilante. ( though the vigilante angle was a ruse) With Batman on the outs with GCPD, Lawton stepping in would be a good angle.
Mister Freeze. Cant see this one at all.
Poison Ivy. Another one thats too "super" to be a Nolan villain without a major overhaul.
Killer Croc. I agree he's good as muscle. Just keep him closer to his original look ( dude with bad skin) rather than the Lizardman look.
Harley Quinn. I dont think she works without there being a "Mister J" around. Also, the distaff Joker doesnt really work with the Nolan Joker.
Mad Hatter. Not seeing it. The hat and Alice in Wonderland obsessions just dont fly. Though maybe if Johhny Depp is available.
Catwoman is easy. She's a catburgler with a nice assortment of gadgets. ( Some stolen WayneTech?) Wasnt the character called the Cat when she first appeared? Seems to me her being female and a burgler is enough for the audience to make the Catwoman connection. Maybe toss in a pet cat to be sure.
The Riddler. The character is a chance for Nolan's Batman to show he's the World's Greatest Detective and not a just Gadget Ninja. Make the Riddler an arrogant so and so who likes to taunt the police ( and Batman) with clues. Not a nutter or a second rate Joker, but a guy who's every bit as smart as Batman. We'd need a second villain to do the "heavy lifting".
Hugo Strange. More of a psychological villain than a psycho. I've always like the Englehart & Rogers storyline from the 70s over what came later. Might be some good source material there.
Clayface. The actor turned assassin angle mentioned by others sounds good. Washed up actors gotta work too.
A few fun angles could be played out. Karlo disguising himself as the Joker or Two-face. Or Him being Fox or Gordon through out the film but Batman and we aren't aware till the end. ( but with clues planted ala Sixth Sense)Deadshot. In his first appearence he was a rival of Batman and Bruce Wayne. A millionaire turned vigilante. ( though the vigilante angle was a ruse) With Batman on the outs with GCPD, Lawton stepping in would be a good angle.
Mister Freeze. Cant see this one at all.
Poison Ivy. Another one thats too "super" to be a Nolan villain without a major overhaul.
Killer Croc. I agree he's good as muscle. Just keep him closer to his original look ( dude with bad skin) rather than the Lizardman look.
Harley Quinn. I dont think she works without there being a "Mister J" around. Also, the distaff Joker doesnt really work with the Nolan Joker.
Mad Hatter. Not seeing it. The hat and Alice in Wonderland obsessions just dont fly. Though maybe if Johhny Depp is available.
Personally, I think this is the best course for Warner if Nolan does make the third movie his last. Warner could still have Batman out there, but they wouldn't immediately try to take over Nolan's vision and possibly hack off his fan base. The old man Wayne may even be a hook to keep Christian Bale involved; it's a kind of role I don't think he's tackled yet.
In any case, I remember reading somewhere that a live action Beyond was the idea until Nolan's idea for Begins supplanted it. If Beyond has been seriously on the table before, and then Warner should realize it could be successful.
You know, I wouldn't necessarily be that opposed to recasting the Joker. Ledger was fantastic, but I can think of others who could pull it off. And the Joker is usually played as a force of nature anyway, so the step to an immortal, indestructible idea is a short one.
The only problem was that Ledger's Joker didn't die onscreen. But you know what would be kind of great? If Gotham's state executed his ass. Because that's what any reasonable state would do.
(The Joker's mental defect pleas have always been extremely problematic, after all, and completely implausible for Ledger's nihilistic terrorist.)
The only problem was that Ledger's Joker didn't die onscreen. But you know what would be kind of great? If Gotham's state executed his ass. Because that's what any reasonable state would do.
(The Joker's mental defect pleas have always been extremely problematic, after all, and completely implausible for Ledger's nihilistic terrorist.)
I just watched the first couple Birds of Prey episodes, and I thought their version of Harlee - Joker worked OK. I could a similar angle working here, a girlfriend or obsessed fan who comes back for revenge after Mister J. has been stopped by Batman.
I'm not big on comic books, so the only exposure I've ever had to Harley Quinn is from the game "Arkham Asylum." She managed to do her own stuff while Joker was elsewhere, and I bought it. Just because we don't see Joker in this next movie doesn't mean he can't be controlling things behind the scenes.
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