Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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My friend and I were discussing this movie (she just went and saw it) and her big problem with the end was, if Batman is okay with actively trying to kill Superman because of the potential threat he possesses, why then is Lex still alive? Why did they bother to grab Lex out of harm's way when Doomsday took a swing at him? How is Lex not a bigger threat currently and more deserving of being put down, than Superman who might be in the future?
It's all part of the master plan...in the next film, Brainiac revives Jimmy's corpse as Giant Turtle Boy, and a massive orgy of destruction ensues.
Because if there's a 1 percent chance that Lex isn't a threat, then Batman has to take it as an absolute certainty!
I think the last scene, when Batman chooses not to brand Lex is meant to signify that he has now been inspired by Superman and regained some of the ethics he had earlier in his career. It is implied in the conversations with Alfred that Batman wasn't always a killer, but somewhere along the line after all the tragedy, he lost sight of that.
^ It was a misunderstanding. A few people thought she was "Jenny Olsen" but that was cleared up when Man of Steel came out.
But if she married Jimmy before his untimely death, she could be Jenny Olsen.
^ Yeah, I thought of that. Then I realized that she couldn't be a Jimmy Olsen stand-in because we already had a Jimmy Olsen.
I thought the movie was a mess. I thought it tried to cram in too many things. The dream sequences were a bit much. The Aquaman, Cyborg, & Flash teasers should have been left on the cutting room floor or used as promotional web material or something.
But, for me, the bigger problem was the big Doomsday fight at the end. It was just loud & noisy & chaotic without being thrilling or engaging. Even at its messiest, Man of Steel still managed to at least maintain a sense of relative geography between its combatants. Doomsday just keeps blowing stuff up somewhere.
I would also agree that Snyder just flat out doesn't understand Superman. There's too much darkness to make it work. In a movie called "Batman v. Superman," I would expect the movie to put a little more work into exploring the different ethos of the two men.
Still, I liked Ben Affleck as Batman & loved Jeremy Irons as Alfred. I'd love to see these two do a solo Batman movie. And I'm hoping Wonder Woman makes a little more sense because it won't be constantly trying to cram in every other member of the Justice League.
Perhaps, prior to the events of Man of Steel, Batman had been in semi-retirement for several years and had barely been seen in the last decade or so. (In that respect, perhaps this Batman was better able to move on and have a better work/life balance between being Batman & being Bruce Wayne. At least, prior to the tragedies of Man of Steel driving him over the edge.)
I noticed the same thing. IMO, the only thing more disastrous than Joe Morton making robots is James Cromwell making robots. Cromwell has done it in 3 different movies and it always goes badly-- Big Hero 6; Surrogates; & I, Robot.
Reminds me of how Spider-Man made a brief reference to a photographer named "Eddie," which was presumably meant to be a reference to Eddie Brock. And yet this turned out to not be the same person as the Eddie Brock that we ultimately met in Spider-Man 3.
Or my theory that, in the X-Men movie universe, Sabertooth & Victor Creed are not the same person. (Sabertooth is Magneto's henchman played by Tyler Mane in X-Men (2000). Victor Creed is Wolverine's half-brother played by Liev Schreiber in X-Men Origins: Wolverine.)
But, for me, the bigger problem was the big Doomsday fight at the end. It was just loud & noisy & chaotic without being thrilling or engaging. Even at its messiest, Man of Steel still managed to at least maintain a sense of relative geography between its combatants. Doomsday just keeps blowing stuff up somewhere.
I would also agree that Snyder just flat out doesn't understand Superman. There's too much darkness to make it work. In a movie called "Batman v. Superman," I would expect the movie to put a little more work into exploring the different ethos of the two men.
Still, I liked Ben Affleck as Batman & loved Jeremy Irons as Alfred. I'd love to see these two do a solo Batman movie. And I'm hoping Wonder Woman makes a little more sense because it won't be constantly trying to cram in every other member of the Justice League.
Perhaps, prior to the events of Man of Steel, Batman had been in semi-retirement for several years and had barely been seen in the last decade or so. (In that respect, perhaps this Batman was better able to move on and have a better work/life balance between being Batman & being Bruce Wayne. At least, prior to the tragedies of Man of Steel driving him over the edge.)
There was one thing that did make me chuckle: Joe Morton playing Silas Stone, creator of Cyborg. Joe Morton, aka Miles Bennet Dyson, creator of Skynet. You'd think he would no not to create cyborgs.
I noticed the same thing. IMO, the only thing more disastrous than Joe Morton making robots is James Cromwell making robots. Cromwell has done it in 3 different movies and it always goes badly-- Big Hero 6; Surrogates; & I, Robot.
Reminds me of how Spider-Man made a brief reference to a photographer named "Eddie," which was presumably meant to be a reference to Eddie Brock. And yet this turned out to not be the same person as the Eddie Brock that we ultimately met in Spider-Man 3.
Or my theory that, in the X-Men movie universe, Sabertooth & Victor Creed are not the same person. (Sabertooth is Magneto's henchman played by Tyler Mane in X-Men (2000). Victor Creed is Wolverine's half-brother played by Liev Schreiber in X-Men Origins: Wolverine.)
Would they have to get permission to put a CGI Chris Reeve into a new Superman movie? Seriously though if the TV show Gotham is about Owlman, why not stick CGI Chris Reeve in somewhere as Ultra Man?
You've all seen this, but by the end, they were getting quite good at rendering Chris.
You've all seen this, but by the end, they were getting quite good at rendering Chris.
That's good, I'm glad WB isn't panicking and having a freakout as much of the media and some internet peoples seem to want them to.
I believe once this BvS hatefest dies down and SS and WW come out to a hopefully better and calmer reception, BvS itself will be seen much more positively in retrospect and won't hamper JL's prospects.
Well it would probably be helped if the director's cut actually fixes a lot of the problems critics and people had with the film.
I gotta say, I'm not a big Marvel guy but I finally watched the first episode of the new Daredevil and his initial fight with Punisher was more thrilling and exciting than all of BvS put together.
I can't really see how that would be possible myself. Even if they could somehow make the movie flow better and seem less choppy, it would still be a pretty slow and dull story with grim and unengaging characters.
I can't really see how that would be possible myself. Even if they could somehow make the movie flow better and seem less choppy, it would still be a pretty slow and dull story with grim and unengaging characters.
I don't think the Director's Cut will help as much for people who didn't like the movie.
But I do think the eventual calming down of this overwhelming media negativity directed at it may persuade some people to reevaluate their opinion of it. Anything positive is getting drowned out right now by alarmist sensationalist headlines that are unfortunately turning a lot of people off from even seeing it or giving it a fair chance.
To be honest, a lot of superheroes are just more suited to television and at the moment, with the money and budget in television matching a lot of Hollywood movies, it's not unexpected. All these street level super heroes are suited to the small screen, can't imagine Daredevil or Punisher taking the fight to Iron Man or Cap. Saying that, I wouldn't mind a scene of Jon Bernthal taking the mini-gun to whatever minions Thanos brings to Earth though.
I agree. The movie had some flaws but I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. That said, I would certainly like to see somebody else besides Snyder take over the development of the DC movies. I'd like to see something a little more faithful to the comics. Unfortunately, DC comics itself seems to have a number of editorial problems right now and even that universe is a bit of a mess.