I was thinking that this was the first time Batman/Bruce Wayne had ever been played by someone actually named Bruce. But in the pilot of the Birds of Prey TV series, the nonspeaking cameo appearance of Batman was played by Bruce Thomas.
Batman: Under the Red Hood
- Thread starter Servo
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Black Mask was a pale imitation of his ultra violent and bi-polar comic book version at least the first Black Mask which the film version uses. I enjoyed Wade Williams performance and laughed at some of the humor but I guess that's me. Kelly Hu's character was actually a male in the comic and interacted more with Black Mask. Black Mask was a means to an end anyway. Jason needed to get the Joker's attention and used Black Mask by attacking his organization and making him angry enough to hire the Joker to try and off him to do it.
As for the writing...since Judd adapted this from his own story arc almost all of the dialogue was lifted or reworked to fit the film. Amazo is from the arc as well. I thought it evident why he was used, Black Mask wanted him to kill Batman thinking an android who could absorb superpowers would be able to defeat him. In the arc Black Mask actually hires Mr. Freeze as well. The villain was also obviously used to showcase how well Bruce and Dick work together and I think it was executed well enough to get that point across.
Jason Issacs was fine as Ra's al Ghul who was essentially given Talia's backstory and involvement with Jason since he was dead at the time in the comics. He was nothing more than a framing device anyways.
As for the writing...since Judd adapted this from his own story arc almost all of the dialogue was lifted or reworked to fit the film. Amazo is from the arc as well. I thought it evident why he was used, Black Mask wanted him to kill Batman thinking an android who could absorb superpowers would be able to defeat him. In the arc Black Mask actually hires Mr. Freeze as well. The villain was also obviously used to showcase how well Bruce and Dick work together and I think it was executed well enough to get that point across.
Jason Issacs was fine as Ra's al Ghul who was essentially given Talia's backstory and involvement with Jason since he was dead at the time in the comics. He was nothing more than a framing device anyways.
There was enough violence in this movie as it was. At least most of it served a purpose. Having this guy keep a bunch of people in his office just so he could beat them up when he was mad was just stupid. For one thing, he'd be constantly breaking his fists. For another, there's no real menace in a character that full of uncontrolled, childish rage. He just seems pathetic. I mean, the Joker randomly killing people is effective here because it's not out of anger; it's done as a joke, or to make a point (which can be the same thing). It's scary because the Joker is perfectly calm and in control. That gives him psychological power over the scene, over the other characters. The Black Mask was so panicked and out of control that he came off as powerless, a weakling using yelling and hitting to compensate for his lack of psychological power. And so he wasn't at all scary. His scenes were just tedious.
Yes, I did see the movie, thank you, so I know that. That doesn't mean the character's portrayal had to be boring and gratuitous.
Exactly why slavish adaptation isn't always a good idea. The kind of random crossover that can work in a medium like comics, where it's all interconnected, is less effective in what's supposed to be a standalone movie. Indeed, in a lot of ways, this story wasn't ideal as a self-contained work. I'm not sure what a viewer who had no prior familiarity with Jason Todd's story would make of it. For one thing, the whole Ra's al Ghul interlude seemed an awkward interpolation that dragged the story to a halt for the sake of labored exposition. I know that Ra's was a stand-in for Talia in the original story, but still, it might've made for tighter storytelling if the explanation for Jason's resurrection had been simpler -- if, say, there hadn't been a body and he'd never actually died in the first place (though I grant that it would've been hard to convince Batman of his death that way).
And I know that Winick wrote the original, so I took it as a given that much of the dialogue was from the comic. That doesn't change the fact that it isn't very good dialogue. I would've been happier if someone else, someone with more of a gift for dialogue, had written the script. Naturally Paul Dini is the first name that comes to mind for a Joker-heavy story.
Maybe in the comic, but definitely not in the movie. Black Mask wasn't even expecting Batman to intercept the shipment. He said outright that he intended to sell Amazo to foreign powers and thus expand into international arms dealing.
But that could've been done with any powerful character, and surely there are candidates in Batman's wheelhouse, such as Clayface and Bane. (Besides, "Amazo" is just such a damn stupid name. And the character design makes it even stupider. I've only ever seen the JL/U interpretation, which was radically different.)
As a longtime Superman fan, I thought it was kind of cool seeing Amazo again. Plus I always like seeing Batman take on someone outside his usual rogue's gallery.
After all those years of BTAS, I'm afraid I just don't see much surprise in seeing him battle Scarecrow or Killer Croc or Clayface anymore.
After all those years of BTAS, I'm afraid I just don't see much surprise in seeing him battle Scarecrow or Killer Croc or Clayface anymore.
^That's a fair point, but Amazo just seems too... silly to be a good fit for this dark, gritty, urban-flavored film. Surely there are other non-Batman villains that aren't quite so fanciful or goofy, that would be a good conceptual and stylistic match for the rest of the movie.
Then you would have preferred Judd using Mr. Freeze as he does in the comics in the role that Amazo played which would have been a totally different scene in the first place as I stated Black Mask also uses Freeze but he was taken out of the film because Victor has a much longer arc in the book.
I would've had no trouble with it being a totally different scene. It wasn't a very good scene, and Nightwing's dialogue was at its worst there.
Come to think of it, it would've been a hell of a lot less awkwardly written if it had involved an established Batman/Robin foe. That way, you wouldn't have needed the absurd conceit of Batman wasting time lecturing a petty hood about Amazo, and you wouldn't have needed the not really absurd but still awkward conceit of one hood telling the other that Nightwing used to be Robin. If the opponent had been someone they'd both fought before, then the necessary exposition could've been worked into the fight banter much more smoothly. And it would be more plausible that an established Bat-villain, someone who'd tangled with Robin more frequently than some random hood and seen him grow up, would be able to recognize that Nightwing was the same person.
Come to think of it, it would've been a hell of a lot less awkwardly written if it had involved an established Batman/Robin foe. That way, you wouldn't have needed the absurd conceit of Batman wasting time lecturing a petty hood about Amazo, and you wouldn't have needed the not really absurd but still awkward conceit of one hood telling the other that Nightwing used to be Robin. If the opponent had been someone they'd both fought before, then the necessary exposition could've been worked into the fight banter much more smoothly. And it would be more plausible that an established Bat-villain, someone who'd tangled with Robin more frequently than some random hood and seen him grow up, would be able to recognize that Nightwing was the same person.
While I had no problem with Amazo, I do see your point and will grant that using one of Bruce's rouges would have made a better connection, I can also understand though why Judd chose to keep Amazo in. I miss the Kryptonite scene from the comics where Jason steals a hundred pounds of Kryptonite from one of Black Mask's warehouse. It's an amusing panel from the comics but would have had no bearing on the film.
I was in the library yesterday and came across the TPB of the comic this was based on, so I decided to check it out (in both senses of the phrase). It is quite different from the movie. I'm startled that the Joker is barely in it. Overall it seems more unfocused and lacking in resolution; it just ends with the revelation that Jason's back and he's bad, and that's about it. I'm wondering if this TPB was just part one or something.
Anyway, the movie was better. The only real advantages of the comic were that Nightwing's dialogue wasn't as lame and that Black Mask wasn't as annoying and over-the-top. I guess it didn't have the structural problem of that big Ra's al Ghul sidebar in the middle, but it instead had a fairly pointless series of scenes of Batman talking with people who'd come back from the dead so he could try to find out... something.
Anyway, the movie was better. The only real advantages of the comic were that Nightwing's dialogue wasn't as lame and that Black Mask wasn't as annoying and over-the-top. I guess it didn't have the structural problem of that big Ra's al Ghul sidebar in the middle, but it instead had a fairly pointless series of scenes of Batman talking with people who'd come back from the dead so he could try to find out... something.
There are actually two volumes Christopher...it's likely you read part one.
The first week sales estimates are out for Batman: Under the Red Hood and it sold about 268,000 units on DVD and Blu-ray, charting at #3 on the DVD sales chart and #2 on the Blu-ray sales chart.
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths (both of which were major sales successes for the DC Universe line) sold 269,000 units and 265,000 units respectively in their first weeks. However, the sales for Batman: Under the Red Hood were tilted far more towards Blu-ray than either of those two titles. Superman/Batman: Public Enemies sold 194,000 units on DVD and 75,000 units on Blu-ray in its first week. Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths sold 205,000 units on DVD and 60,000 units on Blu-ray in its first week. Batman: Under the Red Hood, on the other hand, sold 148,000 units on DVD and 120,000 units on Blu-ray. Warner Home Video is no doubt thrilled with the heavy tilt to the more expensive format.
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths (both of which were major sales successes for the DC Universe line) sold 269,000 units and 265,000 units respectively in their first weeks. However, the sales for Batman: Under the Red Hood were tilted far more towards Blu-ray than either of those two titles. Superman/Batman: Public Enemies sold 194,000 units on DVD and 75,000 units on Blu-ray in its first week. Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths sold 205,000 units on DVD and 60,000 units on Blu-ray in its first week. Batman: Under the Red Hood, on the other hand, sold 148,000 units on DVD and 120,000 units on Blu-ray. Warner Home Video is no doubt thrilled with the heavy tilt to the more expensive format.
That's great news. Also I should point out that Under the Hood was written during and takes place alongside "Infinite Crisis" as Jason and Bruce witness Chemo being dropped onto Bludhaven and Jason taunts Bruce about being too late to save another son. The film made me go re-read it and as I stated it amazed me how different it was originally but also the film made me appreciate the original storyline more than I did the first time. I think Judd did a great job of adapting and stripping down his original story to focus on basically three characters: Joker, Bruce, and Jason. Indeed Joker isn't a focus in the original book as Black Mask takes center stage being the new uber mob boss of Gotham thanks to the events of "War Games" which took place a few months before "Under the Hood" I believe and resulted in the death of Stephanie Brown who was tortured by Black Mask. Steph's "death" also resulted in the falling out of Leslie Thompkins and Bruce due to her actions regarding Stephanie. So Bruce was dealing with quite a bit going into Under the Hood.
Of course, it was joker who killed Jason in the comics, so it makes sense, if you're going to tell the whole story in one fell swoop, to have him there when Jason comes back.
I looked over the TPB and there's nothing saying "Volume 1" or "Part 1." What title is the second half of the story collected under?
Batman: Under the Hood, Vol. 2.
I don't have my volumes handy since I'm at work, but I believe only the second book is labelled as "Book 2" or something similar. Book one shows Batman grappling with the Golden Age Red Hood on the cover, while the second shows Bats and the current Red Hood back-to-back, I believe.
Okay, thanks. I'm going to the library (different branch) to pick up a reserved book today, and I'll check the TPB shelves for volume 2.
I agree...and for me that's what made this Joker much more compelling. He wasn't over-the-top and chaotic like he normally is but more restrained and brutal. The attack on Jason (as indeed in the comics) was as brutal and savage as we've ever seen the Joker.
