Batman: The Killing Joke animated movie from Bruce Timm

[Dick Whitman]

I hope Robert Costanzo is back as Harvey Bullock. Its been a while since I read the comic but the character is in it. If my memory is right a very small appearance. But it would make sense for a bigger role with them fleshing out and expanding the story. Most of all he is still alive and working. Unlike Bob Hasting and Efrem Zimalist, Jr who played Jim Gordon and Alfred. Both who have passed away in recent years.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Probably to avoid confusion with the lamentable Superman: Brainiac Attacks DVD movie from 2006. That was a weird film that was sort of a prototype for the standalone-universe DVDs of the DC Universe movie line, but that reused S:TAS's character and background designs and most of its cast because it was rushed into production too hastily to allow doing new designs. So that was rather confusing and off-putting. It was also younger-skewing than either S:TAS or the DCU movies, and its Brainiac (Lance Henriksen) was much more angry and emotional than the usual version, while its Luthor (Powers Boothe) was a comical, Hackmanesque version that was just annoying.

Probably, but they still could have come up with a better title.

 

[Christopher]

Probably, but they still could have come up with a better title.

What's wrong with Superman: Unbound? It's obviously an evocation of Prometheus Unbound, the Aeschylus play (or the Shelley play named for it). It's certainly a more literary and evocative title than Superman: Brainiac.

 

[JD]

The preview has been pulled.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

What's wrong with Superman: Unbound? It's obviously an evocation of Prometheus Unbound, the Aeschylus play (or the Shelley play named for it). It's certainly a more literary and evocative title than Superman: Brainiac.

I'm unfamiliar with Prometheus Unbound, at least the English title. And to be frank, I also don't quite see the relevance for this particular story, which would qualify this title.

I didn't really mean to say that "Superman: Brainiac" was a particularly good title. At least it has relevance to the story presented. I don't see how Superman is "unbound" in that story, unless you'd count his escape from Kandor, but that feels like a stretch.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't really mean to say that "Superman: Brainiac" was a particularly good title. At least it has relevance to the story presented. I don't see how Superman is "unbound" in that story, unless you'd count his escape from Kandor, but that feels like a stretch.

Well, it's not Superman Unbound, it's Superman: Unbound, so the "Superman" part is the series title and not necessarily a reference to the unbound person/entity. But from looking at the plot summary on Wikipedia (since I don't remember the film too well), maybe it's more about becoming unbound in a figurative sense, like Superman letting go of things that were holding him back in his life, say.

 

[Skywalker]

Actually we're in the third year of a cycle where every year features two in-continuity movies (one Justice League, one Batman) and a third, out-of-continuity movie. In the first year we got JL: War and Son of Batman in-universe and Assault on Arkham as the standalone (it was set in the Arkham games' continuity instead), in the second year we got JL: Throne of Atlantis and Batman vs. Robin in-universe and Timm's Elseworlds-ish JL: Gods and Monsters as the standalone, and this year we get Batman: Bad Blood and JL vs. Teen Titans in-universe and The Killing Joke as the standalone.

Oh, wow, so a lot of the DC animated movies nowadays are part of an ongoing continuity? I haven't really been keeping up with them in recent years. That's kinda cool.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well, it's not Superman Unbound, it's Superman: Unbound, so the "Superman" part is the series title and not necessarily a reference to the unbound person/entity. But from looking at the plot summary on Wikipedia (since I don't remember the film too well), maybe it's more about becoming unbound in a figurative sense, like Superman letting go of things that were holding him back in his life, say.

Well, in a figurative sense, maybe, but very loosely, in my opinion.

It struck me as more of a cheap marketing move at the time, the movie was released a few months after "Django Unchained".

 

[Christopher]

Oh, wow, so a lot of the DC animated movies nowadays are part of an ongoing continuity? I haven't really been keeping up with them in recent years. That's kinda cool.

Yeah, that started when James Tucker took over from Bruce Timm as producer of the line, though Timm has come back for a couple of standalones since (including TKJ). But the quality's been inconsistent. So far the Batman movies have been stronger than the JL ones, but that may be because of the relative strengths of the source material they're drawing on.

It struck me as more of a cheap marketing move at the time, the movie was released a few months after "Django Unchained".

Animation takes a long time to produce, so if it came out just a few months later, that can't be anything but a coincidence. Besides, Django Unchained's title was itself drawing on earlier movie titles, including the 1959 Steve Reeves Hercules Unchained -- a title that I'd imagine was influenced in turn by Prometheus Unbound. That's the thing about classical references -- they tend to show up everywhere. People are constantly assuming that if one recent thing resembles another recent thing, it means one is imitating the other, but most of the time, the reality will be that they're both independently referencing something much older. We're all swimming in the same pool of cultural references and tropes, even if we don't recognize it.

 

[Mr Light]

I actually just watched all those on Easter weekend. S/B Public Enemies, S/B Apocalypse, and Superman Unbound all appear to be in the same continuity. And then all the recent stuff has been in the same continuity starting with JL Flashpoint, JL War, JL Throne of Atlantis, all the Bat movies...

 

[Christopher]

I actually just watched all those on Easter weekend. S/B Public Enemies, S/B Apocalypse, and Superman Unbound all appear to be in the same continuity.

The first two are, since they're adaptations of a 2-part arc. I don't think the third was intended to be. They had different voice casts, which usually denotes a different continuity in the DCU series. The two S/B features reunited Tim Daly, Kevin Conroy, and other DCAU veterans, while Unbound had Matt Bomer as Superman (an interesting choice, since he'd been mooted on the Internet as a possible live-action Superman before Cavill was cast). Also, S/B:A had Summer Glau as Supergirl while S:U had Molly C. Quinn, and I think the two Supergirls had different characterizations. There's also the fact that the first two were produced by Timm, while Unbound was the producing debut of James Tucker.

And then all the recent stuff has been in the same continuity starting with JL Flashpoint, JL War, JL Throne of Atlantis, all the Bat movies...

The Flashpoint Paradox doesn't quite fit with the subsequent New 52-based continuity. It did show a new timeline being established, but the voices and character designs, as well as the Batman-Flash relationship at the end of the film, didn't match what the later films showed. Maybe TFP counts as sort of a rough pilot for the subsequent series, but it's an imperfect fit.

And, again, it's not all the recent stuff, just 2/3 of it. Each year features two in-continuity movies (one JL, one Batman) and one out-of-continuity standalone.

 

[JD]

I'm really hoping if the other characters' live action movies are popular enough that they might spread things out from just JL and Batman again. I really liked the Wonder Woman and Green Lantern movies, and I would love to see movies for some of the other characters like The Flash or Aquaman.

 

[Skywalker]

According to the Wikipedia article, these are the various continuities scattered among the DC animated movies (not including standalones):

Superman/Batman (based on the Superman/Batman comic book)
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse

Justice League (based on the JLA comic book)
Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths
Justice League: Doom

Dark Knight Universe (based on various Frank Miller Batman stories)
Batman: Year One
DC Showcase: Catwoman
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns

DC Animated Movie Universe (based on the New 52)
Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox (post-credits scene leads into the sequels)
Justice League: War
Son of Batman
Justice League: Throne of Atlantis
Batman vs. Robin
Batman: Bad Blood
Justice League vs. Teen Titans

It seems like Green Lantern: Emerald Knights might share continuity with Green Lantern: First Flight, too. Even though it's not a direct sequel, it uses the same character designs, and Ch'p (who had a speaking role in the latter) is seen in the background and referenced by Hal Jordan in the former.

 

[Christopher]

Doom is sort of a loose sequel to Crisis on Two Earths, though. It uses the same character designs and shows clips from the former in its titles, but it has a different voice cast. Although that could just be because the Co2E cast was disappointing (particularly William Baldwin as Batman), so they assembled a cast of veterans from earlier productions.

But Crisis on Two Earths is kind of weird, because it's based on a script that was originally meant to be set in the DC Animated Universe between Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, and there are story beats that give that away, and yet they decided to change the continuity and redo the casting and character designs. It's a frustrating missed opportunity, seeing as how the sequel did bring back most of the JL core cast.

I'm also not sure I'd put Year One and The Dark Knight Returns in the same continuity, since they're both quite faithful to their source comics, and TDKR was never intended to be part of the main DC continuity, while B:YO was the canonical post-Crisis origin for Batman.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I'm also not sure I'd put Year One and The Dark Knight Returns in the same continuity, since they're both quite faithful to their source comics, and TDKR was never intended to be part of the main DC continuity, while B:YO was the canonical post-Crisis origin for Batman.

YO was officially set in Miller's Dark Knight Universe, though I think that was retconning. The first reference of this was, I think, when "All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder" came out, and they claimed that was set in the Dark Knight Universe, as well. It's quite obvious, though, that both TDKR and B:YO were set in the 1980s, which seems to me like they can't possibly be set in the same universe.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, the Year One/DKR one seems strange to me, too. I was just copying over what was on the Wikipedia article. I'm sure they have their sources, but it is Wikipedia...

 

[Mr Light]

Sliding timescale, dawg

 

[Christopher]

YO was officially set in Miller's Dark Knight Universe, though I think that was retconning. The first reference of this was, I think, when "All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder" came out, and they claimed that was set in the Dark Knight Universe, as well.

That's a retcon long after the fact. And All-Star Batman & Robin was from the later, completely insane period of Frank Miller's career. It doesn't represent the creative intent of DC at the time TDKR and Year One were originally released.

It's quite obvious, though, that both TDKR and B:YO were set in the 1980s, which seems to me like they can't possibly be set in the same universe.

I always thought of TDKR as being set in a conjectural future populated by characters who were satirical caricatures of '80s celebrities, rather than being a literal representation of the '80s. It's basically meant to be "If the '80s continued indefinitely and got even '80s-er."

 

[Turtletrekker]

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[JD]

^Thanks, I actually did come across it on CBR earlier today. Looks great. I am thrilled that Conroy and Hamill are voicing Batman and Joker. I heard their voices when I read it a couple years back, and I just can't imagine it being as good without them. I am glad to see that they are expanding Barbara's role, and hopefully will treat her better than the source material did. It sounds like the characterizations of women in some of newer movies haven't been great, but hopefully they'll at least treat her better than the source material did.