Batman Begins/The Dark Knight

[Trekker4747]

Tonight I watched these two movies and had a new admiration for how well made both movies are and how they pull off the look/feel of Batman. I think in the first movie that Bale does a bit better job with the "Bat Voice" but more when he's not "trying' to sound strained/intense/constipated. There's actually in moments when his hushed, strained, whisper actually sort-of works unless he's trying to be "intense" (namely in the 'It's not what I do that defines me" speech. In TDK the voice is just too much, too far, too terrible.

I like how Wayne puts on the persona in public as the Rich, careless, playboy pretty much doing whatever he wants.

I think Maggie Gyllenwhatever works better as the love interest than Katie Holmes does, mostly because I think Maggie looks more like an adult woman suitable for Bale than Katie does in spite of whatever Katie's real-world age may be.

The usage of the bat-technology and how he comes up with it and makes it work in the "real world" is quite nifty.

I will also say that Gotham had a much more multi-worldy comic-book grandeur look to it in BB than it had in TDK where it had a Generic Big City A look. There's some nice establishing shots of Gotham in BB, shots of the monorail and the Wayne Tower that looks quite cool, also loved the set-up of Wayne Manor and the Batcave and can't wait to see how it's employed in the next movie. (I wish it had been used in TDK, personally.)

All and all after repeat viewing I'd give Batman Begins an A- and TDK an A. Both movie would go up a grade if Bale's Batman voice was a bit more in check.

 

[Warped9]

Bale's growling is the one detraction I have for these films as well. Otherwise Batman has never been done better live-action. I still have a fondness for the '89 Michael Keaton Batman, but it's one of nostalgia rather than execution. The rest of the live-actions I don't care for. Adam West's movie is crazy and funny and cannot possibly be taken as a serious take of the character by any means.

I remember how dismissive I was of the Tumbler when I saw early promos of it...and then how I was won over by seeing how it was used. I became an instant believer in that it made much more sense than an over stylized "Bat Coupe."

 

[Harvey]

I don't know why Bale is so consistently blamed for the Bat-voice. At least in The Dark Knight, it was achieved in post-production, rather than through any choice of the actor.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Bale is blamed for the voice because it's his voice. I like to think of the growling as the fact that Bruce himself has not perfected his voice yet. I love both of these films and like to think of them like this:

"Batman Begins" is clearly the Bruce Wayne film, the one that focuses on Bruce the most. While "The Dark Knight" is meant to be the Batman film, The one that asks the question, what does it really mean to be Batman? To accept being Batman? What are the consequences of making that choice and commitment? Bruce learns the hard way what the answers are to those questions and I believe these are themes that will be returned to in "The Dark Knight Rises" in some form or another.

 

[Jax]

I don't dislike his Bat voice because what is the point of wearing a costume to hide your identity if your going to speak normal. Hes a world famous billionaire so eventually people might catch on especially ones like Gordon who he works with at Batman and meets as Bruce Wayne.

 

[Harvey]

Bale is blamed for the voice because it's his voice.

And, again, I have to ask how Bale is responsible for his voice being altered into the booming one everyone complains about (and not without reason--it's over-the-top in The Dark Knight) by sound mixers under Nolan's direction in post-production? It just seems silly to criticize him for something that he didn't do.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Some have said it improved in "The Dark Knight". So you're blaming the ADR?

 

[Set Harth]

^ Some have said it improved in "The Dark Knight Returns".

 

[Admiral_Young]

Haha. Corrected my mistake.

 

[Harvey]

It's not ADR. They altered Bale's voice in post-production, at least on The Dark Knight (I'm not sure what was done for Batman Begins, but the voice there certainly seems less egregious to me).

And I have to admit, this is the first time I've heard anyone say that they thought the voice improved in The Dark Knight.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

The growl didnt bother me as much as Bales slight lisp bothered me.

 

[Warped9]

Whether it was actually Bale growling or his voice modified in post production it still creates a ridiculous effect.

 

[Trekker4747]

Bale is blamed for the voice because it's his voice. I like to think of the growling as the fact that Bruce himself has not perfected his voice yet. I love both of these films and like to think of them like this:

Sort of what I was doing but after watching it again it's not that bad overall it's maybe a bit too Marlboro Man after gargling Draino when he's trying to be "intense" but it's not too terrible. In TDK, oy. They went way overboard between him and whatever was done in Post.

I also think the Batsuit was a bit better looking in Begins in TDK the cowl/mask area is too narrow-looking with too many sharp angles.

I don't dislike his Bat voice because what is the point of wearing a costume to hide your identity if your going to speak normal. Hes a world famous billionaire so eventually people might catch on especially ones like Gordon who he works with at Batman and meets as Bruce Wayne.

Ummm. He can do a different voice, we get the reason for him doing it but the voice he does is too intense. I normally speak in a lighter voice with the sound mostly being pushed out by my chest/lung muscles, but I can lower my voice and talk deeper by using my diaphragm more than my chest muscles and forcing my voice lower.

I can do that to sound different and not sound like I scrape by throat with a wire bottle brush.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I liked the batsuit in Begins as well. I wouldn't be surprised if we got another variation for "The Dark Knight Rises".

 

[Icemizer]

Much prefer BB to TDK for many reasons but they do work well together. Felt Nolan tried for more realism than necessary in TDK as opposed to BB which still maintained a comic book feel to it.

 

[CaptainCanada]

They're both great movies, but I ultimately prefer Batman Begins for its character stuff with Bruce; if Maggie G. had played Rachel in the first one, I think it'd be pretty close to perfect.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I can't help but wonder if Nolan is aware of how much criticism the voice gets and if he is, whether he'd care enough to tweak it. I asked this question in another forum, and was shouted down by people basically saying Nolan shouldn't give a shit what a bunch of whiny, nitpicking fanboys think when he has such a successful franchise going. Not quite the reaction I expected. I really wish he would recognize and fix this problem, because as far as I'm concerned, it's the biggest flaw in the movies and they would improve immensely if it were changed.

I like both of the movies a lot, but along with the voice, another thing that really bugs is the storytelling. "Batman Begins" has way too much exposition, and while I didn't notice it the first time I saw the movie, on repeated viewings, I realized that Katie Holmes's character is AWFUL.

I don't blame her acting and I could understand her not wanting to return for the sequel because of how weak her character was (I don't know if this was her reason for not coming back...I just think she'd be justified if this was her thinking process). Listen to her dialog, pretty much everything she says is exposition. As a friend of mine pointed out, didn't look like a very fun role to play.

As for "The Dark Knight", I think it's a big improvement over "Batman Begins" for sure, but the story is way too bloated and there is some stupid shit in there like the sonar device. That whole scene where he's in the building at the end trying to find the thugs with his sonar while Lucius Fox guides him is just infuriatingly implausible and tedious.

I generally enjoy Nolan's movies, but in his Batman movies and others (except "Memento" and "The Prestige", which I find much more restrained), I think he tends to get carried away with the writing. "The Dark Knight" is way too long and overwritten. Sounds like the sequel is also going to be too long and excessive. The guy has talent, but I wish he'd dial it down a bit.

 

[Trekker4747]

I dunno, the SONAR/microwave device is no more absurd than the microwave device that can instantly boil water in mains, turning it into steam, but leave the water inside human tissue perfectly fine.