BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

[theenglish]

Maybe I should mention that the Riddler is a good guy these days? Batman is laughing his ass off at Edward's half arsed attempts at being a Private investigator.

Well, he's a good guy motivated by self-interest. I really do think that the current dynamic between the Riddler and the Penguin would translate well to screen. Having the movie open with them as the "good guys" and the Batman as the outlaw would be a neat twist.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Batman is the bad guy, then that means, no Batsignal.

Gotham without a Batsignal is just saddening.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

After (yet) another viewing of TDK, I'm beginning to think we may see several villains. Considering the theme of escalation and a few hints, like the reappearance of Scarecrow, the whole fear gas in the Narrows thing, and Joker's comment at the end that "this city will be doubling up the rate which people are losing their minds", I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of things happen in the next movie. Like, Gordon's wife could leave him, taking the kids, explicitly because Gordon won't stop working with Batman. This puts even more stress on his relationship with Batman, who's having to fight the police - I could see the main character arc being all about Batman and Gordon's relationship. It falling apart and them having to find a way to work together when things continue getting worse. Nolan has mentioned on several occasions that The Long Halloween is a major influence - so by the end of the third movie, Gotham's transformation is complete, psychos have taken over all the crime, and the only ray of hope is that Batman and Gordon heal their relationship to go on to fight them. That'd be in keeping with the tone of the previous movies and it prevents anyone from having to try to equal up to the Joker as a villain.

 

[Starbreaker]

I don't think they're going with the Riddler due to the similarity with the Joker. I think Catwoman is off the table after the Halle Berry bomb. I could see the Penguin or Poison Ivy though.

 

[JacksonArcher]

Poison Ivy? Nolan will never, ever go that route. And as much as there's speculation over The Penguin, Nolan has already said he doesn't want to use him.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Really? When was that? (Not doubting you, just hadn't heard it)

 

[DarKush]

I had hoped that Anthony Michael Hall was being cast for Riddler. I thought he would've made a good one.

Praetor has some really good ideas. I wouldn't mind seeing that. Hopefully, Nolan will delve more into Batman's deep rogues gallery and use guys like Black Mask in the next film.

I don't think Nolan, etc. should be worried about topping Ledger's Joker. The focal point should be Batman anyway. What Burton's films did wrong was give the villians way too much focus, and Schumaker made it even worse. What made Batman Begins work was the focus on Bruce. I think they need to go back to that, and take the pressure off themselves from trying to top the Joker.

I was reading some of the comments here and I think Bane is a great villian. He combines freaky strength with a cunning mind. Even without venom, Bane was a tough, dangerous foe. If you perhaps use the ninja-like suit that was in The Batman cartoon I think Bane would be a really good villian to use. However, I don't think he should necessarily be in the third film. He works better going against a more established Batman.

Some of the villians I would like to see: Black Mask, Talia al Ghul (perhaps out for revenge because she thinks Bats murdered her father), Roland Dagget, perhaps a younger pre-Boss Zucco (merely an illusion to Robin without putting Robin in the pic), Riddler. I don't see the Penguin really carrying a movie unless he's got some support. Perhaps having a gang war between Black Mask and Penguin could be a way to involve them both in the film in a 'realistic' Nolan way.

 

[JacksonArcher]

^ Really? When was that? (Not doubting you, just hadn't heard it)

A while ago. I'll try to dig up the interview. It was back when the speculation was rampant for The Dark Knight and who would represent the mob element of the film, and Nolan denounced The Penguin because he thought he would be a difficult character to fit within his realistic setting, which I thought was interesting considering he is probably one of Batman's more easier characters to do in a naturalistic interpretation.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Yeah, I agree (with you, not him). You don't have to do the Penguin as a grotesque, a la Returns. He could simply be a short fat and ugly gangster, who hates the name. Make him something like a cross between Joe Pesci's character in Goodfellas or DeNiro's Capone in The Untouchables.

On the other hand, you could have him as a weapons dealer, as the original scuttlebut for TDK suggested or a society type who is actually a criminal under it - a sort of reverse Poirot.

Certainly, I would have thought that he's a more plausible 'real world' type villain than Ras Al Ghul or Scarecrow.

 

[Trubinator]

Oh please, spare us the Riddler! I remember saying to my friend after The Dark Knight came out that they could successfully make 4, 5, maybe 7 of these movies, but if they're going to insist on picking the stupid, well known villains, I'd almost rather TDK be the last Batman movie. Why can't they just pick some better, not well known villains from the comics? I know they've got everything from pyromaniacs to lizard men, so let's choose from that pool please.

P.S. Jon Depp is a great actor, but I'm reluctant to allow more big name celebrities into the franchise. It could become a gimmicky trend.

 

[Kegek]

^ Yeah, I agree (with you, not him). You don't have to do the Penguin as a grotesque, a la Returns. He could simply be a short fat and ugly gangster, who hates the name.

Like Bugsy?

(In hating the nickname, that is.)

I can see Nolan's point, though. Quite aside from the grotesque monster in Burton's film, a fellow going around in stereotypical capitalist garb is a little silly for his films. But that could be toned down to a tendency to dress in a faux upper-class manner. I think the character would work - and he's always been my favourite villain from Batman's catalogue - but I can live without seeing him in Nolan's films.

I actually like DeNiro's take in Batman Returns, you see. I think it's the strongest preformance in that movie and in the Burton/Schumacher pictures in general.

 

[Aragorn]

How about an out-from-left-field choice for Riddler (who won't get it because he has no big screen status): Jeffrey Donovan

 

[EnterpriseF]

Oh please, spare us the Riddler! I remember saying to my friend after The Dark Knight came out that they could successfully make 4, 5, maybe 7 of these movies, but if they're going to insist on picking the stupid, well known villains, I'd almost rather TDK be the last Batman movie. Why can't they just pick some better, not well known villains from the comics? I know they've got everything from pyromaniacs to lizard men, so let's choose from that pool please.

P.S. Jon Depp is a great actor, but I'm reluctant to allow more big name celebrities into the franchise. It could become a gimmicky trend.

My sentiments exactly. Remember that Szaz (sp) is still out there. If there is a third film, I suspect the theme would be "redemption". That said I think Szaz would fit the bill in helping Batman redeem himself in the eyes of Gotham.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I actually like DeNiro's take in Batman Returns, you see. I think it's the strongest preformance in that movie and in the Burton/Schumacher pictures in general.

DeVITO you mean. Probably a Freudian slip on your part, given my reference to DeNiro's Capone in my post.

And I like DeVito's performance too, though I think the strongest performance in those movies was probably given by Michelle Pfeiffer, with maybe Michael Gough as a runner up. DeVito's Penguin wouldn't fit into the Nolanverse, but he was pretty perfect for a Burton movie.

 

[Kegek]

I actually like DeNiro's take in Batman Returns, you see. I think it's the strongest preformance in that movie and in the Burton/Schumacher pictures in general.

DeVITO you mean. Probably a Freudian slip on your part, given my reference to DeNiro's Capone in my post.

I'd chalk it up to plain dyslexia in this case - I'd confuse any two words if they sound similar enough. I thought DeNiro's Capone was okay. It's a good, broad preformance, but there's very little of it. The scene stealer in that film is really Sean Connery, IMHO. Still, I'd be quite satisfied with a villain as good as DeNiro's Capone for the next Batman - and with Christian Bale we'll be guaranteed a protagonist a few shades better than a frankly stiff Kevin Costner.

And I like DeVito's performance too, though I think the strongest performance in those movies was probably given by Michelle Pfeiffer, with maybe Michael Gough as a runner up. DeVito's Penguin wouldn't fit into the Nolanverse, but he was pretty perfect for a Burton movie.

Agreed that Pfeiffer was also pretty good (and enjoyed Gough as Alfred - I wouldn't be surprised of Burton cast him for his resume in Hammer Horror pictures); and that, of course, the Burton Penguin would never work in Nolan's films. He's too ridiculous. At heart, I think Burton is a very comic director, and I think all of his best work has an element of humour - the insanely funny Ed Wood most of all. This shows through in the Batman pictures. Not humour in the campy sense of Schumacher, but the kind of dark, Gothic humour that Burton is so good at. For me, the Penguin is the best example of that.

Nolan's films take everything dead seriously. If there's humour, it's probably from the Joker and is in shockingly poor taste. Yet I thought he was a lot funnier than Nicholson's Joker, ironically enough.

 

[doubleohfive]

Angelina Jolie as Catwoman is the Greatest Idea in the History of Cinema.

I saw TDK with a few other BBSers and we all pretty much agreed if it is Catwoman, Angelina should play her.

 

[Aragorn]

^ Too bad half the budget will be devoted to hiding her tattoos.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Nolan's films take everything dead seriously. If there's humour, it's probably from the Joker and is in shockingly poor taste. Yet I thought he was a lot funnier than Nicholson's Joker, ironically enough.

Way funnier. But I have to argue the idea that there's no humor in Nolan's bat-films. Bruce Wayne in these movies actually has a sense of humor ("You know how it is, Mr. Fox, you're out at night looking for kicks, someone's passing around the weaponized hallucinogens..."), which is a rare and wonderful thing. Very, VERY few people have been able to produce a Bruce Wayne who can be warm and funny, as well as obsessive and scary. Alfred and Lucius drop quite a few funny lines - the humor is all within the world though, not the self-conscious humor of Burton that tends to wink at the camera a lot - oh look how outrageous and absurd this world is. I'm not knocking that, Edward Scissorhands and Ed Wood are two of my favorite funny films.

 

[Kegek]

But I have to argue the idea that there's no humor in Nolan's bat-films. Bruce Wayne in these movies actually has a sense of humor ("You know how it is, Mr. Fox, you're out at night looking for kicks, someone's passing around the weaponized hallucinogens..."), which is a rare and wonderful thing. Very, VERY few people have been able to produce a Bruce Wayne who can be warm and funny, as well as obsessive and scary. Alfred and Lucius drop quite a few funny lines - the humor is all within the world though, not the self-conscious humor of Burton that tends to wink at the camera a lot - oh look how outrageous and absurd this world is. I'm not knocking that, Edward Scissorhands and Ed Wood are two of my favorite funny films.

Point taken. And agreed - Edward Scissorhands and Ed Wood are wonderful films.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I think a realistic portrayal of The Penguin would work very well, especially how people like Kegek and Captaindemotion have described his possible portrayal.

I mean, how is The Penguin any more harder to interpret in a realistic setting than The Joker or Two-Face? Scarecrow wears a mask. Oswald Copplebot is simply a pudgy gangster. Imagine someone like Philip Seymour Hoffman in the role, a high caliber actor, and anyone can take a character and not make it a caricature. Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker comes to mind.