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Bat'leth: does it still make sense in it's current incarnation? Can it be improved?

Kamen Rider Blade

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We all know the Klingons LOVE their Bat'leth's. Nearly every Klingon Warrior takes one into battle more often than not.

But given it's an "ancient design", does it make sense for its current purpose/role?

We all know it's cultural significance to the Klingons & how attached they are to it.

We have an entire Galaxies worth of Melee Weapons & Martial Arts to learn from.

Along with understanding of Bi-Pedal Bio Mechanical Form & Function.

If somebody is insisting on bringing a Melee Weapon into the field where projectile weapons & energy weapons rule, does the Bat'leth make sense for it's purpose?

Assuming that the Klingons are going to bring a "Melee Weapon" or several types of them into the field along with any projectile launching device of any sort, should they get some help in "Evolving" the weapons form?

Does the Bat'leth need a re-design?

Are there better Melee Weapons to bring?

How does it compare to the Human Swords?

Also, the default listed weight of 5.3 kg (11.68 lbs) is RIDICULOUS.

For Weight Context:
+ Average weight of Swords = 2-3 lbs
+ Dr. Timothy Dawson noted:
- no single-hand sword weighed more than 3.5 pounds, average ~= 2.0 lbs
- no 2-handed greatsword weighed more than 6 pounds, average ~= 4.5 lbs
For Normal Humans, most Melee weapons should be < 3 kg (6.614 lbs), the lighter, the better.

For Video References of people using a Bat'leth IRL or Bat'leth Analysis or about Sci-Fi Historical Contexts:
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I think the current incarnation of the 24th Century Bat'leth that the KDF mass produces is WAY too defense oriented and needs a bit of simplification & slight re-design.
That's the irony of the current design, to the laymen it looks "Super Aggressive"; but for anybody who has practiced martial arts & weapons fighting, its a defensive oriented weapon in actuality.

It needs to be some-what inverted as well.

With the long thin crescent blade should be moved to the outside facing the opponent as a single unified smooth bladed edge, and a single wide shallower angle handle on the back like the original Kah'less Bat'leth.
Short Protective Blade prongs on the outside of the hand guard should protrude & can potentially catch any bladed weapon that slips by, but the longer thinner crescent blade should really be on the outside IMO.
The curvature should be less aggressive as well.
My design would be more "Plain Looking & LOOK more defense oriented", but the reality is that it would be better suited as a offensive weapon despite it's plain-ness & simplicity.

Also, it's classification as "The Klingon Sword" seems like a historian naming it, but not knowing anything about martial weapons and just arbitrarily classifying it as "A Sword".
I think it would be closer to a "Blade Staff" if you were going to classify it in "Human Weapon Typology terms".

Any thoughts from you folks, I think it's not a bad weapon, but its current use is a little bit backwards and overly complicated & over designed.
 
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(To the Mods: I didn't want to do multiple posts in a row, but the artificial limits forced me to do it)

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Addendum Video Posts due to artificial 5 Media limit: Part 2
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I haven't (maybe?) watched all the videos posted, but the thing that always bugged me is in past videos where someone declares it a stupid weapon because they tried to fight with it for all of maybe an hour. All blade weapons require practice to be proficient, so get back to me when you've trained for a year. ;)

Edit: That said, I hate the Disco version. In their efforts to make it more, they've just removed the elegant simplicity of the design. It's just atrocious. The STID version also annoys me, but to a much lesser extent.
 
I haven't (maybe?) watched all the videos posted, but the thing that always bugged me is in past videos where someone declares it a stupid weapon because they tried to fight with it for all of maybe an hour. All blade weapons require practice to be proficient, so get back to me when you've trained for a year. ;)
I have no issue with it's existence, but it's usage along with the Klingon penchant for "Offense First", "Defense somewhere afterwards", the current 24th century design is just backwards for their mentality.

Also there are serious fundamental design issues that I see with it, as I stated above.
Along with doctrinal issues in it's usage compared to the average KDF Warriors mentality.

Edit: That said, I hate the Disco (and to a lesser extent) STID versions. In their efforts to make it more, they've just removed the elegant simplicity of the design. The Disco one is just atrocious.
For the DISCO Bat'leth, why are the outter prongs pointed at the end user? WTF, who thought it was a good idea to have pointy bits facing the user & not the enemy?!?!?!?

As for the ST:ID version, why do you need 3x extra seperate blades on each end along with a extra center protruding blade?
That just increases the weight, complexity, & maintainability while making it more of a "Edge Lords" weapon; instead of a practical martial artists / soldier / warriors weapons.
The enemy will laugh at your Bat'leth compared to better previous generations design.
I'd be like WTF, why did you buy such a dumb Bat'leth?
Did somebody rip you off?

Imagine a lightsaberish bat'leth...
Gundam had the right idea, but in a traditional "Sword Form".


Imagine that emiter/receiver for the energy blade, but on a wider frame that you hold like a Bat'leth.

Also, Abigail Whistler in "Blade Trinity" had a similar weapon, but it was designed to fight vampires.
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They called it the "UV Arc" in that movie.
 
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The edged weapon I would want would be a thought controlled snake-like blade…

Think T-1000 crossed with a yaka arrow.

For myself?

Net and Trident…there’s a reason the SCA doesn’t allow those btw.

That’s why it’s my choice.
 
The edged weapon I would want would be a thought controlled snake-like blade…

Think T-1000 crossed with a yaka arrow.
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You basically want Abarai Renji's Zabimaru Sword.

For myself?

Net and Trident…there’s a reason the SCA doesn’t allow those btw.

That’s why it’s my choice.
Classic, but it works
 
I take issue with the specifics, but I do like STID and DSC making more kinds of bat’leth’s. It always felt cheap to me how identical and mass-produced they were for things that were supposed to be hand-crafted heirlooms. I think it was the rounded profile that really did it. I’m sure all the Mek’leths were the same, too, but their had weird angles and edges that made them look hand-made and less obviously stamped-out.

Though I think the subtler redesigns seen in concept art were better overall, like B and C in the attached image. And, yes, the X-shaped ones are just wacky. I tend to consider the fundamental demonstration of the sword to be when Worf shows it off to Alexander in its first appearance, cradeling it in the crook of his arm and swinging it out, so the crescent shape seems to me to be the key thing that has to be preserved.


original-8.jpeg
 
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I take issue with the specifics, but I do like STID and DSC making more kinds of bat’leth’s.
They seem over-engineered & over-thought. Made by people who don't practice the weapon arts or martial arts in general.

"Less is More" in this case.

It always felt cheap to me how identical and mass-produced they were for things that were supposed to be hand-crafted heirlooms.
Who said the Bat'leths in the KDF's were heirlooms?
They're a mass produced melee weapon for a Government Run Space Military, to be handed out like any other mass produced small arms.
The KDF (Klingon Defense Force) was a government run organization.
Their equipment is "Standardized" just like any other military.

Those are completely seperate things from any Bat'leths that are part of a personal family heritage and passed down from generation to generation.

I think it was the rounded profile that really did it. I’m sure all the Mek’leths were the same, too, but their had weird angles and edges that made them look hand-made and less obviously stamped-out.
The Art department of the TNG era didn't have the consistency of a IRL mass production line, it's still technically small batch order production.

Though I think the subtler redesigns seen in concept art were better overall, like C and D in the attached image. And, yes, the X-shaped ones are just wacky. I tend to consider the fundamental demonstration of the sword to be when Worf shows it off to Alexander in its first appearance, cradeling it in the crook of his arm and swinging it out, so the crescent shape seems to me to be the key thing that has to be preserved.
All of those look "Way Too Busy" IMO.
There's too much mass for the blade profile, which will make it too heavy, which will tire out the user too quickly.
That in turn will make you slower to react in a prolonged conflict and drain unnecessary energy if you need to carry it on you in person.
Too many weird angles.
Too many complicated angles.
Two of the designs have blades pointing back at the user which is fundamentally a bad idea.
 
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Tyranth tests his "Home-Made" Bat'leth and gives you his thoughts as a functional melee weapon based on IRL Martial Combat Principles.
 
Caveat . . . I'm no bladed weapon expert, and while I have seen some videos and done some research on swords and opinions for my 2015 blog post "Baakonite Bat'leths" (more of a volumetric analysis so I could try to get the density of baakonite), I haven't reviewed the entire 15 video series you've recommended.

That said:

Around the same time the bat'leth appeared, I was fiddling with the little ladder that came with a kid's riding toy fire truck thing and imagined the rail ends sharpened. It was neat gripped crossways by the side rails a la bat'leth, though it was also interesting to ponder it held by the last rung and basically serving as a big arm extension, with the rails and forward rail ends sharpened laterally.


KT1605_FirePedalCar_PD.png


Of course, you lose the capacity for wrist-related movements with that setup. The alternative was flopping the ladder around by the last rung loosely to try to make up for that lack, but if you have the rail ends sharp laterally ( - - ) you don't want it flopping that way, where you'd need them sharpened the other way ( | | ) . . . but having them that way would contradict the lateral-sharpened rail sides. Contradiction's not a problem until you're swinging with the rail sides and accidentally spank something with the flat parts at the end of the rails.

In any case, rung-flopping meant that you'd be having a less than fully controlled sharp thing wobbling about, so it wasn't a good idea. A sharpened ladder was still neat and unique, though, which is basically what the bat'leth is. The curves only help in that regard.

While there are plenty of folks willing and ready to try to dunk on Dan Curry and while it's entirely possible there were certain TV-cool aspects he allowed through his design process, I think at the end of the day one is unlikely to beat his design and ideas with "improvements" unless they're demonstrably better in rigorous testing.
 
Caveat . . . I'm no bladed weapon expert, and while I have seen some videos and done some research on swords and opinions for my 2015 blog post "Baakonite Bat'leths" (more of a volumetric analysis so I could try to get the density of baakonite), I haven't reviewed the entire 15 video series you've recommended.

That said:

Around the same time the bat'leth appeared, I was fiddling with the little ladder that came with a kid's riding toy fire truck thing and imagined the rail ends sharpened. It was neat gripped crossways by the side rails a la bat'leth, though it was also interesting to ponder it held by the last rung and basically serving as a big arm extension, with the rails and forward rail ends sharpened laterally.
Purple Heart Armory sells "Trainer Bat'leth's" that you can dork around with here.

It might be 'More Fun' if you buy the trainer and start testing it yourself IRL.


While there are plenty of folks willing and ready to try to dunk on Dan Curry and while it's entirely possible there were certain TV-cool aspects he allowed through his design process, I think at the end of the day one is unlikely to beat his design and ideas with "improvements" unless they're demonstrably better in rigorous testing.
Dan Curry's fundamental design can be improved, but you would still be able to see the lineage & evolution from his design and it would make logical sense instantaneously once you see it.
 
I doubt we'd ever see it, but some acquaintances and I once speculated about a bat'leth lightsaber... possibly the easiest way to remove one's own foot in history.
 
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