Bana's Make-up in Star Trek XI

[Ro_Laren]

I hope that Bana isn't supposed to be a Romulan (or a Klingon) as he doesn't look like either. Couldn't he just be a rebellious Vulcan with a cool tatto and messed up ear(s)?

 

[Chaos Descending]

Romulans look exactly like Vulcans. Balance of Terror proves this.

TNG got it wrong.

 

[JuanBolio]

I hope that Bana isn't supposed to be a Romulan (or a Klingon) as he doesn't look like either. Couldn't he just be a rebellious Vulcan with a cool tatto and messed up ear(s)?

I dunno - he looks like he could potentially be either, or a mix of both.

 

[Ro_Laren]

I hope that Bana isn't supposed to be a Romulan (or a Klingon) as he doesn't look like either. Couldn't he just be a rebellious Vulcan with a cool tatto and messed up ear(s)?

I dunno - he looks like he could potentially be either, or a mix of both.

Well, if I had to choose one then I would prefer Nero to be a Klingon. At least it was explained to us (on Enterprise) why the look of Klingon's changed. We don't have any reasoning for the Romulans (unless you want to use the argument that their are billions of Romulans that don't necessarily all long the same just like we don't on Earth).

 

[Therin of Andor]

We don't have any reasoning for the Romulans (unless you want to use the argument that their are billions of Romulans that don't necessarily all long the same just like we don't on Earth).

Have you not noticed all the amazing race-related differences in eye, nose and forehead shape, not to mention colour, in Terran clines?

I've seen humans with huge, craggy eyebrow ridges of Cro Magnan (or is that Neanderthal?) proportions. Is it so hard to believe that most of the Romulans who left Vulcan were the ones who looked less like the ones left behind. Or that like-foreheaded Romulans stick together? Or that natural selection bred out any ridged Vulcans that were still around? Or they chose not to mate and pass on the same genetic patterns as those who left?

Proto-Vulcans have ridges: see the Mintakans.

Hundreds of possibilities.

 

[THE CHEBB]

I like my Romulans without the brow ridges...so Bana's look is alright in my book.

 

[SonicRanger]

I've seen humans with huge, craggy eyebrow ridges of Cro Magnan (or is that Neanderthal?) proportions. Is it so hard to believe that most of the Romulans who left Vulcan were the ones who looked less like the ones left behind. Or that like-foreheaded Romulans stick together? Or that natural selection bred out any ridged Vulcans that were still around? Or they chose not to mate and pass on the same genetic patterns as those who left?

The suggested dates of the Romulan-Vulcan split are one to two thousand years earlier, not a lot of time for natural selection to favor something that seems so trivial as a ridge on the forehead. That doesn't seem too likely.

Some sort of "ethnic cleansing," though, that is more plausible. But what always screws up this debate is that Spock was able to walk around Romulus without being noticed or (regularly, so we'd see it) harassed or discriminated against... but perhaps you could argue he was, just off-screen.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I've seen humans with huge, craggy eyebrow ridges of Cro Magnan (or is that Neanderthal?) proportions. Is it so hard to believe that most of the Romulans who left Vulcan were the ones who looked less like the ones left behind. Or that like-foreheaded Romulans stick together? Or that natural selection bred out any ridged Vulcans that were still around? Or they chose not to mate and pass on the same genetic patterns as those who left?

The suggested dates of the Romulan-Vulcan split are one to two thousand years earlier, not a lot of time for natural selection to favor something that seems so trivial as a ridge on the forehead. That does seem to likely.

Some sort of "ethnic cleansing," though, that is more plausible. But what always screws up this debate is that Spock was able to walk around Romulus without being noticed or (regularly, so we'd see it) harassed or discriminated against... but perhaps you could argue he was, just off-screen.

There's another take on this issue.

Suppose that the reason that the founders of the Romulan Star Empire decided to settle in that particular system was because they'd found a very similar "proto-vulcan" race already there. Let's call them, say, "Remans."

The two races were similar enough, biologically, to be compatible. They could even interbreed (although that would be fraught with stigma).

The mixed-breed people didn't look like "pure Vulcans" anymore. They'd take on certain characteristics of their Reman bloodline. Which might well include forehead structures.

Over centuries, you'd have "egalitarian" periods where everyone was treated equally and "racially-divided" periods when the two groups were treated differently (depending on which group was in power at the time).

Think of the "smooth-foreheaded" Romulans as "Pure, Aryan Romulans." Think of the Remans as any of the derogatory terms that have been used by say, the National Socialists in 1930s/1940s Germany or Italy, or in early-1900s Russia, or so forth. It's not hard to draw the parallels, is it?

 

[Sector 7]

I've seen humans with huge, craggy eyebrow ridges of Cro Magnan (or is that Neanderthal?) proportions. Is it so hard to believe that most of the Romulans who left Vulcan were the ones who looked less like the ones left behind. Or that like-foreheaded Romulans stick together? Or that natural selection bred out any ridged Vulcans that were still around? Or they chose not to mate and pass on the same genetic patterns as those who left?

The suggested dates of the Romulan-Vulcan split are one to two thousand years earlier, not a lot of time for natural selection to favor something that seems so trivial as a ridge on the forehead. That does seem to likely.

Some sort of "ethnic cleansing," though, that is more plausible. But what always screws up this debate is that Spock was able to walk around Romulus without being noticed or (regularly, so we'd see it) harassed or discriminated against... but perhaps you could argue he was, just off-screen.

The episode(s) were just on Sci-Fi recently. I noticed that there were both ridged and non-ridged Rommies on the homeworld with no explanation needed.
I guess Kirk really did visit Romulus!

 

[SonicRanger]

The episode(s) were just on Sci-Fi recently. I noticed that there were both ridged and non-ridged Rommies on the homeworld with no explanation needed.

Really? I can't find any examples (other than Sela, of course) of non-ridged Romulans appearing in Unification. All of them in this shot, for example, have ridges:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s5/5x08/unificationparttwo431.jpg

Can you point to any that don't?

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=106
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=107

 

[SonicRanger]

There's another take on this issue.

Suppose that the reason that the founders of the Romulan Star Empire decided to settle in that particular system was because they'd found a very similar "proto-vulcan" race already there. Let's call them, say, "Remans."

The two races were similar enough, biologically, to be compatible. They could even interbreed (although that would be fraught with stigma).

The mixed-breed people didn't look like "pure Vulcans" anymore. They'd take on certain characteristics of their Reman bloodline. Which might well include forehead structures.

Over centuries, you'd have "egalitarian" periods where everyone was treated equally and "racially-divided" periods when the two groups were treated differently (depending on which group was in power at the time).

Think of the "smooth-foreheaded" Romulans as "Pure, Aryan Romulans." Think of the Remans as any of the derogatory terms that have been used by say, the National Socialists in 1930s/1940s Germany or Italy, or in early-1900s Russia, or so forth. It's not hard to draw the parallels, is it?

That's not a bad explanation at all. Supposedly Vulcans are descended from Sargon's people, so let us suppose that his people were "Vulcaniod" and had the ridges. They founded several colonies across the galaxy, and some succeeded, leading to the Vulcans, Remans, Mintakans, and perhaps others. Over 500,000 years, only the Vulcans lost their ridges -- that's more than enough time, certainly much more plausible than ridges developing in a mere 1000 or 2000 years (and also seeing them in the Mintakans).

 

[Kryton]

Turns out he IS supposed to have ear tips.

Only they won't be installed until Tuesday.

 

[Chaos Descending]

There's another take on this issue.

Suppose that the reason that the founders of the Romulan Star Empire decided to settle in that particular system was because they'd found a very similar "proto-vulcan" race already there. Let's call them, say, "Remans."

The two races were similar enough, biologically, to be compatible. They could even interbreed (although that would be fraught with stigma).

The mixed-breed people didn't look like "pure Vulcans" anymore. They'd take on certain characteristics of their Reman bloodline. Which might well include forehead structures.

Over centuries, you'd have "egalitarian" periods where everyone was treated equally and "racially-divided" periods when the two groups were treated differently (depending on which group was in power at the time).

Think of the "smooth-foreheaded" Romulans as "Pure, Aryan Romulans." Think of the Remans as any of the derogatory terms that have been used by say, the National Socialists in 1930s/1940s Germany or Italy, or in early-1900s Russia, or so forth. It's not hard to draw the parallels, is it?

That's not a bad explanation at all. Supposedly Vulcans are descended from Sargon's people, so let us suppose that his people were "Vulcaniod" and had the ridges. They founded several colonies across the galaxy, and some succeeded, leading to the Vulcans, Remans, Mintakans, and perhaps others. Over 500,000 years, only the Vulcans lost their ridges -- that's more than enough time, certainly much more plausible than ridges developing in a mere 1000 or 2000 years (and also seeing them in the Mintakans).

And even BETTER explanation is that Romulans have NEVER had ridges, and just like in Balance of Terror, they look exactly like Vulcans.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Over 500,000 years, only the Vulcans lost their ridges -- that's more than enough time, certainly much more plausible than ridges developing in a mere 1000 or 2000 years (and also seeing them in the Mintakans).

Exactly. That the Mintakans are described canonically as proto-vulcans, and have ridges and overhanging foreheads, suggests that strains of Vulcans on Vulcan began losing their ridges over many thousands of years. It could also be, as I said earlier, that any ridged Vulcans left behind on Vulcan, after the (predominantly ridged Romulan) rebels left, logically chose not to pass on their genetic material.

Spock wandering undisguised on Romulus (in "Unification") suggests that the Romulan homeworld has a variety of foreheads. Also, the fact that many Romulans in TOS wear helmets that cover the foreheads is useful.

The "Vulcan's Soul" trilogy of novels further speculates that the Remans were a result of a large group of Romulans who were irradiated in an accident while enroute to Romulan space, plus attempts to "save" them through DNA tampering (including alien DNA), and various periods of imposed and self-imposed exile. Certainly, looking at a Reman, you can still see proto-vulcan attributes, such as foreheard ridges and pointed ears.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

There's another take on this issue.

Suppose that the reason that the founders of the Romulan Star Empire decided to settle in that particular system was because they'd found a very similar "proto-vulcan" race already there. Let's call them, say, "Remans."

The two races were similar enough, biologically, to be compatible. They could even interbreed (although that would be fraught with stigma).

The mixed-breed people didn't look like "pure Vulcans" anymore. They'd take on certain characteristics of their Reman bloodline. Which might well include forehead structures.

Over centuries, you'd have "egalitarian" periods where everyone was treated equally and "racially-divided" periods when the two groups were treated differently (depending on which group was in power at the time).

Think of the "smooth-foreheaded" Romulans as "Pure, Aryan Romulans." Think of the Remans as any of the derogatory terms that have been used by say, the National Socialists in 1930s/1940s Germany or Italy, or in early-1900s Russia, or so forth. It's not hard to draw the parallels, is it?

That's not a bad explanation at all. Supposedly Vulcans are descended from Sargon's people, so let us suppose that his people were "Vulcaniod" and had the ridges. They founded several colonies across the galaxy, and some succeeded, leading to the Vulcans, Remans, Mintakans, and perhaps others. Over 500,000 years, only the Vulcans lost their ridges -- that's more than enough time, certainly much more plausible than ridges developing in a mere 1000 or 2000 years (and also seeing them in the Mintakans).

And even BETTER explanation is that Romulans have NEVER had ridges, and just like in Balance of Terror, they look exactly like Vulcans.

Of course, to accept that, you have to flush every TNG-and-later Star Trek episode and several movies.

I wish, very much, that Roddenberry and crew hadn't "revised" the Romulans at the end of TNG S1. But they did. It's official now. If you change it, you're saying "forget all of this."

Some people would like that. Others would hate it. Some find the suggestion that ANY element of Trek that's been onscreen should be "left valid" except where there are contradictions, and in those cases you need to find the LEAST intrusive solution.

To be honest, the "least intrusive" solution would be to say that all Vulcans except human/vulcan half-breeds like Spock have SOME "ridges." But I sure don't want to see that.

 

[Chaos Descending]

That's not a bad explanation at all. Supposedly Vulcans are descended from Sargon's people, so let us suppose that his people were "Vulcaniod" and had the ridges. They founded several colonies across the galaxy, and some succeeded, leading to the Vulcans, Remans, Mintakans, and perhaps others. Over 500,000 years, only the Vulcans lost their ridges -- that's more than enough time, certainly much more plausible than ridges developing in a mere 1000 or 2000 years (and also seeing them in the Mintakans).

And even BETTER explanation is that Romulans have NEVER had ridges, and just like in Balance of Terror, they look exactly like Vulcans.

Of course, to accept that, you have to flush every TNG-and-later Star Trek episode and several movies.

Count me in.

 

[Kryton]

Nero is obviously Chinese...he just never got his ears caught in a mechanical rice-picker.

 

[SonicRanger]

This is fun -- now let's invent a reason for Andorians in TMP having ridges!

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/otherfed1.htm

Some fans treat "redesigning" aliens as a TNG-era phenomenon, but obviously GR and crew did it whenever they had a chance after TOS.

I would like to hear more, from reliable sources, about the behind-the-scenes reasoning about the addition of ridges to the Romulans... As everyone points out, part of the storyline of Balance of Terror hinges on Spock looking like a Romulan.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

And even BETTER explanation is that Romulans have NEVER had ridges, and just like in Balance of Terror, they look exactly like Vulcans.

Nope. It's inconsistent with canon.

Bana's makeup in the photo includes an obvious forehead ridge.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

And even BETTER explanation is that Romulans have NEVER had ridges, and just like in Balance of Terror, they look exactly like Vulcans.

Nope. It's inconsistent with canon.

Bana's makeup in the photo includes an obvious forehead ridge.

It also includes and obvious "nose to forehead wide blend" prosthetic which is inconsistent with Romulans (much less Vulcans) but is completely consistent with Klingons.

Bana is wearing a LOT of makeup there, subtle though it may be.

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced he's a Klingon. Whether or not he's grown up among Romulans, he's no Vulcanoid.