Balance of Terror Questions

[Gotham Central]

1. I've never understood why Lt. Stiles had such strong dislike of the Romulans. His attitude seems a bit out of place when you think about it. He has issues with the Romulans because his grandfather fought them in a war more than a century prior to the episode. Given the rather remote way the war was described as being fought, why would the grand child of one of the soldiers hold a grudge...especially since it was with a race that they never actually met? It just seems a little unbelieveable.

2. What rationale would the Vulcans have for not disclosing their biological relationship to the Romulans? Its not as if 22nd/23rd century humans had not come into conflict with people that looked human. Why all the secrecy?

 

[JustKate]

I agree that Stiles' motivation was, shall we say, a bit obscure, but just for the sake of discussion...

Two or three years ago, we visited Shiloh, Tennessee, site in 1862 of a pivotal battle in the U.S. Civil War .*

* Explanation included for the benefit of non-USofAns

After visiting the battlefield (strongly recommended for anybody interested in the Civil War, BTW), we visited a shop that sold relics.

Well, the old guy who sold us a "Yankee" relic talked as though the Civil War had ended maybe 2 years before, as though Yankees had killed his daddy, raped his sister and stolen the family's mule. I am, I swear, not exaggerating. To him, it was recent history. And this even though he knew perfectly well that we pretty much qualified as Yankees, too. He was nice to us, because we were customers and because he wasn't an unkind man (and besides, I went out of my way to mention that I have Southern relatives - my momma didn't raise no fool), but...

He even, and I swear I am not exaggerating about this either, kind of tried to convert us to the Confederacy.

Since I have Southern relatives, including some who do still refer to people as "Yankees," I wasn't too surprised. My husband, however, whose entire family is from the Midwest and who hasn't ever been called a Yankee before, was not amused. But to me it was very funny and very interesting, though more than a bit odd.

So anyway, is Stiles' attitude that far off from the old guy in Shiloh? He was still extremely bitter about events that had occurred 140 years before, and while his may be a somewhat exaggerated attitude, it definitely isn't unique, not in some parts of the South.

 

[Gotham Central]

I agree that Stiles' motivation was, shall we say, a bit obscure, but just for the sake of discussion...

Two or three years ago, we visited Shiloh, Tennessee, site in 1862 of a pivotal battle in the U.S. Civil War .*

* Explanation included for the benefit of non-USofAns

After visiting the battlefield (strongly recommended for anybody interested in the Civil War, BTW), we visited a shop that sold relics.

Well, the old guy who sold us a "Yankee" relic talked as though the Civil War had ended maybe 2 years before, as though Yankees had killed his daddy, raped his sister and stolen the family's mule. I am, I swear, not exaggerating. To him, it was recent history. And this even though he knew perfectly well that we pretty much qualified as Yankees, too. He was nice to us, because we were customers and because he wasn't an unkind man (and besides, I made sure I mentioned that I have relatives in the South), but...

He even, and I swear I am not exaggerating about this either, kind of tried to convert us to the Confederacy.

Since I have Southern relatives, including some who do still refer to people as "Yankees," I wasn't too surprised. My husband, however, whose entire family is from the Midwest and who hasn't ever been called a Yankee before, was not amused. But to me it was very funny and very interesting, though more than a bit odd.

So anyway, is Stiles' attitude that far off from the old guy in Shiloh? He was still extremely bitter about events that had occurred 140 years before, and while his may be a somewhat exaggerated attitude, it definitely isn't unique, not in some parts of the South.

I considered that, but those types of sentiments are the result of proximity, experience and failure.

Confederate soldiers and citizens came face to face with their enemy, were eventually conquered by them, and to this very day live with the decendents of that enemy. The same is true in places like Ireland or Palestine.

Stiles has none of that to work through. As far as we can tell Earth won the E/R War ended up prosperous and powerful and did not hear from the Romulans for a hundred years. That is not an environment that breeds generations of resentment. It would be like the grandchild of an American sailor that fought on a ship in the Pacific during WWII still holding a general grudge against the Japanese. Even that does not completely hold up since we still interact with the Japanese.

 

[Cakes488]

I know what it is...I think. Stiles grandfather and possible other family members were killed during this said war. Stiles father raised him...right, so therefore, his father poisened him/influenced him against the Romulans because his father experienced the pain of this war and the subsequent deaths first hand!

 

[FarDreaming]

As for 2- the premise was that the relationship between the Vulcans and the Romulans was not known until BoT. If there was any notion among the Vulcans themselves, it seemed not to be common knowledge- and not anything anyone of them in the know shared with other Federation members.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It helped the plot.

 

[kythe]

1. I've never understood why Lt. Stiles had such strong dislike of the Romulans. His attitude seems a bit out of place when you think about it. He has issues with the Romulans because his grandfather fought them in a war more than a century prior to the episode. Given the rather remote way the war was described as being fought, why would the grand child of one of the soldiers hold a grudge...especially since it was with a race that they never actually met? It just seems a little unbelieveable.

I don't really find that unbelieveable. My great uncle and aunt were from Germany and before WWII, they lived in an area that later became East Berlin. They moved to the US just a few months before the dividing lines were set and they would have been stuck there for the next 40 years.

While visiting them as a child and interacting with their family, what impressed me most was how grateful they felt for not having experienced the holocaust first hand and how strongly this knowledge influenced their lives. They were willing to give up their friends, some family, their careers, and the only home they knew to move to another country and learn a different language, just to escape the influence of Nazis. Even though they were not close relatives, I grew up with this knowledge and have been personally affected by their beliefs and experiences.

For Stiles in the story here, this isn't even so far removed. A lot of people grow up near grandparents or spending a significant amount of time with them. He may have internalized his grandfather's beliefs as he grew up with a close relationship with him. If his grandfather had traumatic experiences associated with Romulan activity, the effects of this can be rather far-reaching.

 

[Cakes488]

I know what it is...I think. Stiles grandfather and possible other family members were killed during this said war. Stiles father raised him...right, so therefore, his father poisened him/influenced him against the Romulans because his father experienced the pain of this war and the subsequent deaths first hand!

Yes Cakes I agree with you...this is the answer. I must say I enjoy your posts thoroughly and I'm so glad you've joined the board!! As a matter of fact I wish I was you!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Well, the old guy who sold us a "Yankee" relic talked as though the Civil War had ended maybe 2 years before, as though Yankees had killed his daddy, raped his sister and stolen the family's mule. I am, I swear, not exaggerating. To him, it was recent history. And this even though he knew perfectly well that we pretty much qualified as Yankees, too. He was nice to us, because we were customers and because he wasn't an unkind man (and besides, I went out of my way to mention that I have Southern relatives - my momma didn't raise no fool), but...

He even, and I swear I am not exaggerating about this either, kind of tried to convert us to the Confederacy.

Wow. That guy sounds either like he's a loon who's taking that shit way too seriously, or he's playing up the whole Whistling-Dixie persona for the benefit of paying tourists such as yourself.

I kinda suspect the latter. But he's in no way representative of Americans as a whole. I don't think I've ever met anyone who gave a flying frak about the Civil War except as something they might have a personal historical interest in, the way people might be interested in any hobby. Even Civil War re-enactors I've met understand the difference between their hobby and reality, and don't come to the party with live ammo.

 

[Gary7]

JustKate and Gotham Central sized it up well. Humans are humans... we have a tendency not to forget the past and inherit the perspectives of our elders.

I have no discriminatory feelings about folks from the south, but I worked down there on several occasions and... well, was rather surprised to find people still avidly talking about the Civil War, "as though the Civil War had ended maybe 2 years before." Yep. And because I came from the NY area, I was a "Yankee." I wasn't about to call my southern co-workers Confederates! They did educate me a bit on the war... folks from the north will say "it was about slavery", when that was just one ingredient. It was more complicated than that. It was interesting to gain further clarity, but... to me it was more for edification and plain curiosity, not to resolve unbalanced feelings of which I think are still present down there. Really strange and a bit unsettling. The war is long over and yet...

So, pain runs deep and long... It is understandable that Stiles would be harboring hatred for the Romulans. After all, there was no resolution. A peace treaty, yes, but no further interactions, no opportunity to learn about who the Romulans really are.

 

[JustKate]

Wow. That guy sounds either like he's a loon who's taking that shit way too seriously, or he's playing up the whole Whistling-Dixie persona for the benefit of paying tourists such as yourself.

I kinda suspect the latter. But he's in no way representative of Americans as a whole. I don't think I've ever met anyone who gave a flying frak about the Civil War except as something they might have a personal historical interest in, the way people might be interested in any hobby. Even Civil War re-enactors I've met understand the difference between their hobby and reality, and don't come to the party with live ammo.

Um, Temis...I am an American. No, my particular old guy isn't representative of "Americans as a whole," but even now he's not all that uncommon in the South. There are plenty of people who still take the Civil War very personally. My own grandmother talked with pride about her great-great-whatever who died at Gettysburg but mentioned his brother who fought for the Nawth only in a whisper. No kidding.

They are, however, a lot fewer than they used to be (and for all I know, this particular old guy might be dead by now, as is my grandmother), but there are others still out there. Do not kid yourself. Maybe this one was a loon, or maybe he was doing the Dixie thing for us tourists, but all I can say is, he said almost exactly the same things as did my late grandmother, who was most definitely not a loon (she was a pretty unpleasant person, but she was sane) and who was completely sincere. I wish it weren't true either, but it is. Sorry.

So, pain runs deep and long... It is understandable that Stiles would be harboring hatred for the Romulans. After all, there was no resolution. A peace treaty, yes, but no further interactions, no opportunity to learn about who the Romulans really are.

Yep. Exactly.

 

[Gary7]

Btw, Temis the Vorta, you have a really great avatar.

 

[JustKate]

^ Temis certainly does! And I've been meaning to say how much I like yours, Gary.

 

[JiNX-01]

I didn't think that Stiles' bigotry was that far-fetched -- as it applied to the Romulans who had caused the deaths of several family members.

I just think it was odd that he saw only the physical resemblance of Spock to the Romulans and ignored his entirely different attitude, belief system and unblemished service to Starfleet.

And while Spock acknowledges that there was a schism on Vulcan aeons ago and that the Romulans could be distant cousins, he clearly maintains his loyalty to SF and the Federation by warning Kirk that they can't back down from the incursion. So from that standpoint, I don't see what Stiles' issue was, except to fill the role of jerk.

 

[Maurice]

KIRK: I had no idea that history was your specialty.
STILES: Family history. There was a Captain Stiles was in the space service then. Two Commanders and several junior officers. All lost in that war, sir.

It's "they killed MY clan". That's a pretty basic and common motivation for hatred.

 

[Rulius]

Well the War of Northern Aggression is still fairly fresh to some here in the South heh.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

As for 2- the premise was that the relationship between the Vulcans and the Romulans was not known until BoT. If there was any notion among the Vulcans themselves, it seemed not to be common knowledge- and not anything anyone of them in the know shared with other Federation members.

Quite right.

Spock: "If the Romulans are an offshoot of my Vulcan blood - and I think this likely..." (emphasis mine).

It is obvious from the episode that Spock was as clueless about the nature of the Romulans as any of the "earthlings" aboard the Enterprise.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Or they don't speak of it with outsiders,

 

[Myasishchev]

I don't believe the Vulcans knew, but if they did and witheld that information, it's for the same reason the Romulans did their best to hide their identities in the first place: to prevent anyone from thinking to use their stockpiles of anti-Vulcan biological weapons, which we can probably presume at least the Andorians had.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I always felt (and, when I'm in a Warped 9 frame of mind and ignoring all Trek beyond TWoK) that the Romulans were an ancient offshoot of the Vulcans, separated from Vulcans long before Surak and long forgotten.