Balance of Terror Questions
- Thread starter Gotham Central
- Start date
1) Stiles' whole B-plot was just some random racist thing just to play up some fake drama with Spock, and for him to learn not to be a racist by the end. Sure, it didn't exactly make perfect sense but Stiles came off as a real jerk and again, it was just there for some forced drama.
2) The Romulan-Vulcan relation thing was supposed to be revealed in that episode with the common Vulcan not knowing about it. Likely the Elder Vulcans and higher-ups may have known but kept it to themselves (they're enigmatic pointy-eared Devils, them Vulcans...). I'd think the Romulans would have known and it may play a point in the Manifest Destiny mindset ("We got kicked off our planet for the way we are, let's make a big Empire and show our cousins what a mistake it was to do so!") but the limited communications of the era kept them from just blathering about it to everyone.
2) The Romulan-Vulcan relation thing was supposed to be revealed in that episode with the common Vulcan not knowing about it. Likely the Elder Vulcans and higher-ups may have known but kept it to themselves (they're enigmatic pointy-eared Devils, them Vulcans...). I'd think the Romulans would have known and it may play a point in the Manifest Destiny mindset ("We got kicked off our planet for the way we are, let's make a big Empire and show our cousins what a mistake it was to do so!") but the limited communications of the era kept them from just blathering about it to everyone.
It's possible that it was known to Vulcans that a group set off for the stars long ago. Never hearing from them again, it could be assumed that they either perished or quietly colonized somewhere and became irrelevant. They would've become a tiny footnote in the planet's history and forgotten, much like Khan and his sleeper ship.
In what episode? Balance of Terror? And what's your source for this?
I didn't write that well enough, what I meant was that the whole "Romulans look like Vulcans!" thing was invented for Balance of Terror. What we know from later series (if you're not one of those jerks who keep harping on over what is and isn't canon from later series...) would imply that perhaps the Vulcans did know about the Romulans but wouldn't have let the common Vulcan know about it.
I sorta am one of those jerks.
Seriously, though, if you're thinking of the ENT episode that explains why Vulcans were such assholes for the first three seasons, the impression I took away was that the Romulans knew about Vulcans but the Vulcans (the ones not co-opted by the Romulans) did not know about Romulans; coincidentally, this is the same idea I came up with to explain how the 20-something Saavik could be half-Romulan if the Federation only learned about them 15 years before TWoK.
You have to assume the Romulans knew about Vulcans. I mean, they were from there, and when they left obviously had a sophisticated, record-keeping culture. By corollary, we would have to assume (even if Spock didn't tell us, as he did iirc) that the Vulcans would know about the Romulans, but would not know their whereabouts, or even if they persisted after a few millennia.
...And, judging by Spock's turn of phrase, there might be dozens of Romulan-style ex-Vulcan civilizations out there. They would include those who departed before Surak brought planetary unity; those who left in a huff when Surak's folks took over the planet; and perhaps those who colonized the universe under Surak's flag but soon decided either that respecting the central government was not logical - or that Surak had been dead wrong after all, and reverting back to emotions and severing ties with the motherworld was the way to go.
That is, Spock refers to a brutal colonization period that Vulcan underwent. One could then assume this would result in extra-Vulcan Vulcanoids of the first type, those who departed before Surak. But one could also read Spock differently: perhaps the last time Vulcan had brutal colonists was before the discovery of spaceflight? Perhaps Spock speaks of the brutal times of colonization by sandships, not by starships, and muses that any Vulcans living in deep space might have reverted back to this type of brutal colonist given the similar circumstances?
Timo Saloniemi
That is, Spock refers to a brutal colonization period that Vulcan underwent. One could then assume this would result in extra-Vulcan Vulcanoids of the first type, those who departed before Surak. But one could also read Spock differently: perhaps the last time Vulcan had brutal colonists was before the discovery of spaceflight? Perhaps Spock speaks of the brutal times of colonization by sandships, not by starships, and muses that any Vulcans living in deep space might have reverted back to this type of brutal colonist given the similar circumstances?
Timo Saloniemi
I kind of figured my statement would attract you specifically, Brutal.
Anywho, I watched ENT again and I still don't get the "Vulcans were jerks" thing about ENT. I mean seriously it's not like we didn't see jerky Vulcans in TOS+.
I agree with you. In fact, in early season one TOS, Spock was portrayed as more than a bit of a bastard--an insensitive hard-ass with a cruel sense of humor (just ask Yeoman Rand). I liked that Spock and I kinda liked that quality about ENT's Vulcans. But apparently Manny Cotto didn't because we got a 3 episode arc which was designed to mellow them out and blame all their dickery on their Romulan cousins.
Vulcans are snobs. It's a universal rule. 
That also nicely explains why they wouldn't discuss their Romulan cousins even if they knew about it, although I'm inclined to believe most didn't. Rumors? Perhaps. But I doubt there were many facts, and if there were I doubt many Vulcans bought into them or discussed them. Few Vulcans were ever willing to 'discuss' anything they considered private - even Spock. Besides, just how would you go about telling all your allies that there's a slight unproven chance their most hated enemy just might be an ancient offshoot of your race?
As for Stiles, I'd argue that it was definitely 'family history' mixed with somewhat blind chest-thumping patriotism that caused his particular dickery. There could have also been a little general bigotry towards non-humans thrown in for good measure.
That also nicely explains why they wouldn't discuss their Romulan cousins even if they knew about it, although I'm inclined to believe most didn't. Rumors? Perhaps. But I doubt there were many facts, and if there were I doubt many Vulcans bought into them or discussed them. Few Vulcans were ever willing to 'discuss' anything they considered private - even Spock. Besides, just how would you go about telling all your allies that there's a slight unproven chance their most hated enemy just might be an ancient offshoot of your race?
As for Stiles, I'd argue that it was definitely 'family history' mixed with somewhat blind chest-thumping patriotism that caused his particular dickery. There could have also been a little general bigotry towards non-humans thrown in for good measure.
I've always thought that was why they were so secretive, refusing to surrender, refusing visual communications with Federation vessels, etc. The ability to slip agents disguised as Vulcans into UFP installations, onto ships, was too great an advantage to give up easily.
I'm gonna go ahead and say it.I kind of figured my statement would attract you specifically, Brutal
Anywho, I watched ENT again and I still don't get the "Vulcans were jerks" thing about ENT. I mean seriously it's not like we didn't see jerky Vulcans in TOS+.
I personally never liked the way Vulcans were portrayed in any Star Trek series, beyond Mr. Spock and Sarek. It never made any sense to me that a race totally devoted to logic would be so devoted to the ornate ceremony and near-religious pagentry we saw in Amok Time and Star Trek III. The enigmatic elder Vulcans with their King James English seems totally at odds with the idea of a purely logical race. Archaic rituals don't seem very logical.
That said, at least Vulcans in TOS don't all look like Mr. Spock clones the way all had to in the Berman era, with the exception of Tuvok. There was a curious need from TNG onward to make every member of an alien race all look exactly the same. Every Vulcan and Romulan had to wear the same annoying black wig in the same style. There was at least some variety in TOS.
^ Maybe (I am not doubting you, I just can't remember every Vulcan)...but I can think of one notable exception: Tuvok!
Edit: Oh, and I just thought of another one: T'Pel in "Data's Day." Though as it turns out, she was a Romulan pretending to be a Vulcan. We actually don't see her hair when she is Vulcan because she wears a headdress of some sort all the time, but she definitely doesn't wear that Vulcan-y hairstyle out where we could see it.
Edit: Oh, and I just thought of another one: T'Pel in "Data's Day." Though as it turns out, she was a Romulan pretending to be a Vulcan. We actually don't see her hair when she is Vulcan because she wears a headdress of some sort all the time, but she definitely doesn't wear that Vulcan-y hairstyle out where we could see it.
Last edited:
Tim Russ would have looked odd with a Beatles-style mop top.
I will add, however, that despite my complaints, I always loved Susie Plackson's (sp?) portrayal of Selar. She was one of the few TNG-era Vulcans that were done right.
I always assumed the Amok Time rituals were the only holdover from the ancient times...during Pon Farr the subject loses control of his logic, so you can't have a logical process per se. I agree that the other mystic elements later assigned to the Vulcans seem at odds with what Spock always espoused.
I think all that stuff is a sign that Vulcans aren't really all that logical. They discipline themselves in an effort to have themselves guided by logic, but they aren't any less emotional than the rest of us. And I think they use ritual as one of their techniques to discipline themselves.
There are Vulcans with different belief systems. Didn't Tuvok once say that he was skeptical about the existence of the katra (immortal soul)?
