Balance of terror, balance of evidence?

[Timo]

The episode itself is a bit contradictory there: the Romulans are veterans of campaigns even though supposedly they have only had each other to fight against for the past century.

Of course, later episodes would establish Vulcans as long-lived, with implications on how old these characters are (the Commander specifically would appear to be about 102.437 years old, give or take two thousand stardates). And the episode itself gives us plenty of reason to think the Romulans would just love fighting each other. But "the RSE is nothing but Romulus and Remus" may not have been what was actually in the mind of the writer in "BoT" after all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

I ragged enough on ENT when it was new. I've long since just ignored it along with VOY and JJtrek.

 

[Kor]

In his Captain's Log in BoT, Kirk specifically refers to "the neutral zone between planets Romulus and Remus and the rest of the galaxy." That sounds awfully small if taken literally. However, the star chart that appears in the very same episode shows that Romulan space is significantly larger than just those two planets.

In The Deadly Years, Kirk made mention of "the neutral Zone between our Federation and the Romulan empire," the first time that the Romulan domain is actually referred to as an empire.

The commander and the centurion must have engaged in a hundred campaigns on sides of the empire that don't border the Federation.

Kor

 

[johnnybear]

What were The Romulans and humans actually fighting over? The humans crossing into Romulan space probably but considering there aren't many planets in the Neutral zone, there wouldn't really be the need for ground forces!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Truth of the matter is that most aliens created in the 60s and 70s in numerous shows were created for that one story and would probably never be seen or heard of again! I mean we know virtually nothing of The Gorn apart from what was said in Arena or The Salt Vampires, Thasians or Old Ones either!
JB

 

[uniderth]

What were The Romulans and humans actually fighting over? The humans crossing into Romulan space probably but considering there aren't many planets in the Neutral zone, there wouldn't really be the need for ground forces!
JB

In my version of the Earth-Romulan War, unbeknownst to humans, the Romulan's main target was actually the Vulcanians. Earth(read humanity) was just in the way.

 

[johnnybear]

But then that raises the question as to why Spock was ignorant of them in Balance surely?
JB

 

[uniderth]

But then that raises the question as to why Spock was ignorant of them in Balance surely?
JB

I guess I should rephrase. Unbeknownst to anyone but the Romulans. In other words the Romulans remembered their connection and wanted revenge. While the Vulcanians had no idea who the Romulans were or that they were even connected in the past.

Why did they want revenge? Reasons.

 

[Forbin]

The episode itself is a bit contradictory there: the Romulans are veterans of campaigns even though supposedly they have only had each other to fight against for the past century.

No, they had a whole empire on their side of the neutral zone. Just because they didn't fight the Federation doesn't mean they weren't rampaging across their parts of the beta quadrant conquering planet after planet of hapless locals. They were originally based on the Roman empire, after all.

 

[Kor]

No, they had a whole empire on their side of the neutral zone. Just because they didn't fight the Federation doesn't mean they weren't rampaging across their parts of the beta quadrant conquering planet after planet of hapless locals. They were originally based on the Roman empire, after all.

Yes, but the dialog in BoT itself makes it sound like Romulus and Remus are walled off from the whole rest of the galaxy, as if "civilized" Federation space surrounds their domain on all sides. But that line of dialog can be hand-waved away based on what we learn later about their empire.

Kor

 

[MAGolding]

Well, the implication in Balance of Terror was that after the war the Romulans were supposed to be sealed up within their own Solar System. Their "Empire" was just supposed to have been their two worlds of Romulus and Remus, so maybe part of the Treaty was them giving up most of their Slave Soldiers.

Obviously the writers changed their minds later on about how big the Romulan Empire was.

No they changed their minds during writing and rewriting of "Balance of Terror".

Captain's Log, stardate 1709.2. Patrolling outposts guarding the neutral zone between planets Romulus and Remus and the rest of the galaxy, received emergency call from outpost 4. The U.S.S. Enterprise is moving to investigate and assist.

Clearly the planets Romulus and Remus and their star system or systems are surrounded by the Romulan Neutral Zone.

SPOCK: Which allowed no quarter, no captives. Nor was there even ship-to-ship visual communication. Therefore, no human, Romulan, or ally has ever seen the other. Earth believes the Romulans to be warlike, cruel, treacherous, and only the Romulans know what they think of Earth. The treaty, set by sub-space radio, established this Neutral Zone, entry into which by either side, would constitute an act of war. The treaty has been unbroken since that time. Captain.

The Romulans have never sent even a single spaceship across the Neutral Zone (or at least been detected doing so) and so can not crush rebellions on any planets beyond the Neutral Zone. Thus they must rule only planets in the one (or more) star systems within the Neutral Zone around planets Romulus and Remus.

But:

CENTURION: We've seen a hundred campaigns together, and still I do not understand you.

So two members of a Romulan stars ship crew have fought a hundred campaigns together. Maybe they fought as Romulan space marines on the ground of planets, but more likely they fought aboard Romulan star ships. Perhaps the Romulan space navy fought a hundred campaigns in a single war against a large and powerful space government. Maybe they conquered a hundred separate space travelling realms as powerful as the Gorns or Cardassians or First Federation in a hundred separate space wars.

If the Romulan star ships can't travel across the Neutral Zone, wouldn't they have to reach distant stars by using stable wormholes or something to disappear from one place and reappear in another distant star system? And form another neutral zone around it after conquering it?

In "Balance of Terror" Kirk says:

KIRK: Open a channel to our nearest command base. Quarter hour reports on our position and status.

UHURA: Yes, sir.

Later:

KIRK: Are you continuing to broadcast tactical reports?
UHURA [OC]: Affirmative, Captain.
KIRK: And at this distance?
UHURA [OC]: Approximately three hours before receiving a reply to our first message.

Thus the subspace radio round trip time to the nearest command base should be at least three hours.

And later:

KIRK: How many men did we lose, Bones?
MCCOY: Only one. Tomlinson. The boy who was getting married this morning. His fiancée is at the chapel.
(Kirk turns to go, and Rand enters)
RAND: We finally received an answer from Command base, sir. They say they'll support whatever decision you have to make.

Thus the subspace radio round trip time to the nearest command base should be somewhere between three and twenty four hours.

In "The Enterprise Incident" in another part of the Romulan Neutral Zone:

KIRK: You understand that Starfleet Command has been advised of the situation?
TAL [on viewscreen]: The subspace message will take three weeks to reach Starfleet. The decision is yours, Captain. One hour.

Three weeks for a one way message should be between 7 and 21 days, and thus 168 and 504 hours. Thus if the speed of subspace radio is the same the distance between this part of the Neutral Zone and Starfleet Command, presumably on Earth, should be 7 to 168 times as great as the distance between the part of the Neutral Zone in "Balance of Terror" and the nearest command base.

In "The Alternative Factor" Kirk has a conversation with no time lag with Commodore Barstow at Starfleet Command, presumably calling from Earth.

KIRK; Aye, aye, sir. Can you assign me other starships as a reserve?
BARSTOW [on viewscreen]: Negative. I'm evacuating all Starfleet units and personnel within a hundred parsecs of your position. It's going to be tough on you and the Enterprise, but that's the job you've drawn. You're on your own.

A hundred parsecs is 326.156 light years. Presumably Barstow is not evacuating starships from Earth and the inner systems of the Federation, and thus Kirk should be more than 326 light years from Earth. If the time lag for subspace radio waves is less than 3 seconds at a distance of at least 330 light years, the section of the Romulan Neutral Zone in "Balance of Terror" should be at least 1,782,000 to 28,512,000 light years from Earth and the section of the Romulan Neutral Zone in "The Enterprise Incident" should be at least 19,958,400 to 59,875,200 light years from Earth.

Since our galaxy is only about 100,000 to 120,000 light years in diameter, those figures don't add up. But they imply that the Romulan Neutral Zone is spread out over a vast distance.

In "Whom Gods Destroy":

SPOCK: Fascinating. What maneuver did we use to defeat the Romulan vessel near Tau Ceti?
KIRK 1: Very good, Spock. The Cochrane deceleration.
KIRK 2: Spock, you know the Cochrane deceleration's a classic battle maneuver. Every Starship Captain knows that.

So a Romulan starship was destroyed, possibly by the Enterprise, and possibly near the Romulan Neutral zone, near Tau Ceti, which is about 11.905 light years from Earth.

In "The Deadly Years" the Enterprise makes an ill advised shortcut from Gamma Hydra across the Romulan Neutral Zone to Starbase Ten. Gamma Hydra is presumed to be Gamma Hydrae, about 138.8 light years from Earth - about 11.658 times as far as Tau Ceti. The angles and times during the journey give the impression that the Romulan Neutral zone is curved and much smaller than the distance from Tau Ceti to Gamma Hydrae.

The evidence indicates that the Romulans travel through wormholes or something to other star systems far beyond the Neutral Zone and conquer them and create new Neutral Zones around them. Thus the Romulan Empire should consist of tens or hundreds or thousands of separate sections, each containing one or more star systems and each surrounded by a section of Neutral Zone.

 

[Timo]

As regards message times, since there is basically no time lag across vast distances in most episodes, the lag near the Romulans could and IMHO should be chalked up to local conditions - bad subspace weather or deliberate Romulan jamming, take your pick. In either scenario, time lag from one and the same location X to Earth might vary from a minute to a month.

The Star Charts interpretation of the RNZ combines the real location of Gamma Hydra with the curvature seen in the "BoT" map and the ellipsoid shape seen in ST2:TWoK to yield an empire that very nicely (and no doubt largely coincidentally) allows for the above plotlines and results in the rimward end of the RNZ brushing more or less against the UFP core and Vulcan, plus against the Klingons who lie where certain TNG era onscreen maps place them in relative terms. That ellipsoid ends up being only about 100 ly long - theoretically a border the early UFP might have fantasies about controlling over its entirety. But of course all borders in Trek leak like sieves, and rightly so, given the performance of Trek sensors.

Other interpretations are possible and desirable, but multiple RNZs don't sound like a good idea; we have enough trouble accepting that there might have been two Neutral Zones in ST6:TUC, the Romulan and the Klingon one, as dialogue specifies a single one.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nebusj]

As regards message times, since there is basically no time lag across vast distances in most episodes, the lag near the Romulans could and IMHO should be chalked up to local conditions - bad subspace weather or deliberate Romulan jamming, take your pick. In either scenario, time lag from one and the same location X to Earth might vary from a minute to a month.

I hesitate to use this as an explanation for an apparent Trek inconsistency because it's so dangerous. But, could it be that Tal is mistaken about how fast Federation subspace radio is? Conceivably, since subspace radio isn't light, the signal could move at different speeds, and maybe the radio got faster while the Romulans weren't talking to Earthers.

 

[Timo]

IMHO Sternbach and Okuda created the perfect solution for their TNG Tech Manual. A subspace radio signal is hyperfast only across relatively short distances, and after distance X it begins to lose potency and "drop back to realspace", losing speed at the same time. Ultimately, at distance Y, it has dropped fully to realspace and travels at the speed of light (but still remains readable enough).

It's just that the Federation has deployed relay buoys in a dense enough pattern to ensure that the signal never has to travel Y or even X. But get outside the reach of the relay network (be it in unexplored space or space bordering on enemy possessions), and you start hitting the sour spot between X and Y, getting lag time that doesn't yet amount to the years or centuries or millennia one would expect from radio comms in deep space, but nicely varying between seconds and weeks.

Add to this that X and Y may depend on the strength of the transmitting device (the TNG TM gives a Y of some 22 ly for the transmitter of the hero ship, but the runabout transmitters might have significantly less range), and you have everything: insta-comms, slight lags, and messages taking centuries to arrive, depending on conveniently minor things such as the exact model of your radio set or the exact positioning of your vessel down to mere lightyears. Heck, it even covers all those theoretical "it takes three centuries for our SOS to cross intergalactic distances" musings - that's what it would take if there were relays in place, but there aren't, and thus there can be no SOS.

That the Romulans would live really far away is not a line of thought worth pursuing: how could there then have been a war with them back when everything was "by our standards primitive"?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anwar]

And this whole idea that the Romulans didn't have FTL is also an error.

When Scotty says "They only have Impulse power", the problem is that back in TOS Impulse didn't mean Sublight. Back in TOS Impulse was a form of FTL, just one less powerful than Warp. He was saying "They have FTL, just not as good as ours."

When later iterations stated that Impulse was Sublight, it made people who went back to watch BOT think of the line differently than what was originally intended.

 

[J.T.B.]

When Scotty says "They only have Impulse power", the problem is that back in TOS Impulse didn't mean Sublight. Back in TOS Impulse was a form of FTL, just one less powerful than Warp. He was saying "They have FTL, just not as good as ours."

Or, the ship has to use impulse drive when cloaked, maybe stretching what Scotty says but taking the submarine analogy further (warp=surface diesel, impulse=submerged electric). But yeah, the distances in the episode require the Romulans to have some FTL of their own.

 

[Timo]

Or then not. After all, the savage pursuit towards the RNZ takes our villains through the tail of a comet, at what must be snail's pace judging by the length of the passage, yet there is no indication of the villains slowing down for the maneuver. Perhaps Federation outposts are located within shouting distance of each other, just outside the asteroid belt of the local system, and the pursuit spanned all of 1.22 astronomical units?

It's only in light of latter Trek that we have to start to prefer certain types of interpretation. And we cannot tolerate FTL impulse in that broader context, either.

Whatever the limitations of this particular adversary vessel, we know Romulans are in on the secret of warp: their weapon travels at extreme warp speed. And a Romulan "submarine" being limited to impulse speeds would tell exactly nothing about the speeds to which Romulan "surface ships", contemporary or a century into the past, would be limited.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anwar]

They had to have some form of FTL or else they'd never have gotten out that far to attack the outposts to begin with, or make it back to Romulus.

Or even wage effective war against the Federation at all, really.

 

[Timo]

If all the action takes place at the speeds dictated by the comet scene, and at distances in accordance with the "RNZ contains just two planets" model, then there's no need for FTL. And since we learn basically nothing about the old war in the episode (least of all any involvement by the Federation), it could have been confined to a single system as well.

It's only outside the boundaries of that single episode that we have to start pruning out certain ideas. And once we get there, we have to abandon STL Romulans, FTL impulse and a couple of other as such nifty concepts that at one point may even have been a writer intention.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[johnnybear]

Yes, but the dialog in BoT itself makes it sound like Romulus and Remus are walled off from the whole rest of the galaxy, as if "civilized" Federation space surrounds their domain on all sides. But that line of dialog can be hand-waved away based on what we learn later about their empire.

Kor

Since the episode's debut though we know that Klingon space borders The Romulan Empire as well!
JB